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the pom
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England Squad

Postby the pom Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:22 pm

With the world games approaching quickly

has the England squad been announced?

I had heard rumours there has been another cut but nothing has been published.

or is the squad still at 46 including the Americans brought in in January.

I though one of our strengths is England can get the team together to gel and work together before even leaving the UK.
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Re: England Squad

Postby orange05 Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:34 pm

There was a cut for 'domestic' players on 21 Feb - seven players were cut to leave a training squad of 39 (25 domestic plus 14 overseas players).

The unlucky seven were Dom Fitzgerald, Ollie White, Matt Birkett, Matt Baldwin, Dave Cluney, James Bates and Chris Wainer.

The final 23 plus alternates will be named on 6 June.
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Re: England Squad

Postby ibop Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:49 pm

The England squad are in action this coming Sunday in their return fixture against Durham Uni
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Re: England Squad

Postby whopead Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:32 pm

They also lost to the LDO team last weekend i believe. 13-8 so rumour has it.

Worrying? or lots of squad rotation?
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Re: England Squad

Postby the pom Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:17 pm

I would not worry about the LDO game who knows what squad went ect(although they should really have beaten them)

I am surprised by the latest cut and the number of overseas players still in (and the lack of official announcement of the cut)

It appears we have cut only UK players who have put in the time and effort and are putting in overseas players who have not been there the whole way.

this seems contradictory to the press release by England lax

“They have full time collegiate players and guys from the professional leagues where as our guys have jobs and studies to fit in as well. It is rare for a collegiate Division 1 player to have an off day from lacrosse be it training, team weight sessions, game reviews or psychological evaluation,” he says.
“But they are spread out across vast countries and cannot get together and organized like we can to get the guys disciplined and playing as a team.
“Their players obviously have a high lacrosse IQ, and can pick up things quickly. But because of geography, they usually have to gel as a team during the tournament. We are in a unique position where we can train regularly and foster familiarity and camaraderie between the players in England before even boarding the flight to Denver.”


so 2/3 of the team will have familiarity and camaraderie and the other 3rd will just slip in?

of the current squad(39) 65% are English based and 35% are overseas based.

but if the overseas players get selected for the final 23 we could be in a position where 61% are overseas and 39% are English based.

I am not saying this is wrong as this could be the strongest team we can get out.

it is just worrying at a time when other European teams are lowering their dependence on US/Canadian based players we are increasing ours.
even though we have more resource such as talent development roles in the ELA academes ect ect which other European countries just don't have

I think it may be short term benefit but long term what does it say the younger kids put in all the effort and your place will go to someone from overseas.

(trig I blame the new league structure)
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: England Squad

Postby davidmcculloch81 Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:45 pm

I think what you are doing here is confusing guesswork with actual facts to try and make a point.

How can you possibly comment on England's increased/decreased dependency on US/Canadian based players before the final cut? The coaching staff are giving themselves the opportunity to look at every available player before making their decision on the squad that will give them the best chance at the tournament - based on numerous criteria.

How dare they?
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Re: England Squad

Postby Rotisserie Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:35 am

orange05 wrote:There was a cut for 'domestic' players on 21 Feb - seven players were cut to leave a training squad of 39 (25 domestic plus 14 overseas players).

The unlucky seven were Dom Fitzgerald, Ollie White, Matt Birkett, Matt Baldwin, Dave Cluney, James Bates and Chris Wainer.

The final 23 plus alternates will be named on 6 June.


Is that now all the "Southern" players gone at this point?
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Re: England Squad

Postby orange05 Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:50 pm

Yes
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Re: England Squad

Postby Rotisserie Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:04 pm

Thought so.

Congratulations to the boys for getting so far. Seems we still have a long way to go down south to bridge the gap in ability.
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Re: England Squad

Postby stocklax26 Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:26 am

Bill Fisher is from Spencer. Just plays for Poynton while he is at Uni.
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Re: England Squad

Postby davidmcculloch81 Wed May 28, 2014 3:37 pm

the pom wrote:I would not worry about the LDO game who knows what squad went ect(although they should really have beaten them)

I am surprised by the latest cut and the number of overseas players still in (and the lack of official announcement of the cut)

It appears we have cut only UK players who have put in the time and effort and are putting in overseas players who have not been there the whole way.

this seems contradictory to the press release by England lax

“They have full time collegiate players and guys from the professional leagues where as our guys have jobs and studies to fit in as well. It is rare for a collegiate Division 1 player to have an off day from lacrosse be it training, team weight sessions, game reviews or psychological evaluation,” he says.
“But they are spread out across vast countries and cannot get together and organized like we can to get the guys disciplined and playing as a team.
“Their players obviously have a high lacrosse IQ, and can pick up things quickly. But because of geography, they usually have to gel as a team during the tournament. We are in a unique position where we can train regularly and foster familiarity and camaraderie between the players in England before even boarding the flight to Denver.”


so 2/3 of the team will have familiarity and camaraderie and the other 3rd will just slip in?

of the current squad(39) 65% are English based and 35% are overseas based.

but if the overseas players get selected for the final 23 we could be in a position where 61% are overseas and 39% are English based.

I am not saying this is wrong as this could be the strongest team we can get out.

it is just worrying at a time when other European teams are lowering their dependence on US/Canadian based players we are increasing ours.
even though we have more resource such as talent development roles in the ELA academes ect ect which other European countries just don't have

I think it may be short term benefit but long term what does it say the younger kids put in all the effort and your place will go to someone from overseas.

(trig I blame the new league structure)


So the final squad has been announced (well done everyone - enjoy and do us proud).
http://www.englishlacrosse.co.uk/team-england/team-england-announces-roster-for-2014-world-championships-18591/

A few facts for the pom to consider...

2014
No of 'overseas' (not English born) = 5
Out of squad of 23 = 22%

2010
No of 'overseas' (not English born) = 7
Out of squad of 23 = 30%

Of the 5 selected this time around, 2 (Standiford and Clive) were part of the successful 2012 squad. Therefore only 3 new faces, who I am sure will fit right in.
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Re: England Squad

Postby UKLacrosse Wed May 28, 2014 4:59 pm

davidmcculloch81 wrote:A few facts for the pom to consider...

2014
No of 'overseas' (not English born) = 5
Out of squad of 23 = 22%

2010
No of 'overseas' (not English born) = 7
Out of squad of 23 = 30%

Of the 5 selected this time around, 2 (Standiford and Clive) were part of the successful 2012 squad. Therefore only 3 new faces, who I am sure will fit right in.


Facts Davo? Lewis Ratcliff was born in London, UK, so in that respect was not 'overseas' by your definition.
The fact that Cayle Ratcliff was unfit and hardly played, but allegedly 'they came as a pair' does distort the facts slightly. Everyone can have their opinion on 'overseas' players, and I would lay a rather large wager that the majority of 'players' would prefer to see no 'overseas' players in the squad. My definition of 'overseas' .... someone who has not played in this country, and/ or contributed to lacrosse in this country, and/ or will never be seen to step foot in this country, and/ or uses England as a flag of convenience. Personally, I would support NO 'overseas' players regardless of the FIL rules, but then as I don't play, I don't really think my view counts.
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Re: England Squad

Postby gazmanofhull Wed May 28, 2014 6:42 pm

Also, Kyle Standiford was born in London and unlike many Americans that make rosters for the worlds, not just England's, he did spend a season here. He played for Durham University, Newcastle LC in NEMLA & Yorkshire in 2010-11.
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Re: England Squad

Postby orange05 Thu May 29, 2014 12:17 am

Colin Clive was also born in England
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Re: England Squad

Postby davidmcculloch81 Thu May 29, 2014 2:07 pm

These comments are all very well, but I'd appreciate if you all stop undermining my barely-cobbled-together thoughts with well-researched information.
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Re: England Squad

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 29, 2014 4:08 pm

England selection is always an emotive subject, you either make it or you don't

Congratulations to all those that did and I hope you have a good tournament and play to the best of your abilities and represent England well

spare a thought for all those that missed out on selection, I hope you enjoyed the experience and felt you were given a fair opportunity through the process. I have been on both sides of selection and one is much harder to deal with than the other.

One of the recurring questions with selection is the role of non domestic players?

this comes down to the more fundamental. what is the purpose of the England Team and who is it for?

is it purely to finish with as high a World ranking as possible to tap into some govt funding?

Is it the represent Lacrosse in this Country (NEMLA/SEMLA/BUSA) in order to inspire domestic players and give them a career pathway to reach the highest level?

or is there a different reason?

Once you know what the criteria is then selection should become clearer

it is also interesting to see the structure of the team and where these players came from

Club volunteers work very hard each weekend making huge commitments of time, money & effort to help develop junior players, non of the below players got there on their own. I've added the Junior Programme where known in red.

Congratulations to all those Junior Coaches who had a hand in the development of these England players

2014 TEAM ENGLAND ROSTER
Club Team College Team
Goalie
Nick Anderton Cheadle LC - Boardman & Eccles
Ben McAllister Stockport LC - Mellor

Defence
Andrew Baxter Stockport LC - Brooklands
Max Bonsall Siena
Tommy Kirkland Sheffield University - Timperley
Kyle Standiford Dade LC Amherst
Sam Patterson Stockport LC - Stockport
Jak Wawrzyniak Heaton Mersey LC Providence - Heaton Mersey
Tom Williamson Stockport LC - Stockport

Midfield
Mike Amstrong Timperley LC - Timperley
Chris Brady Cheadle LC - Cheadle
Jack Brook Timperley LC - Timperley
Alix Davidson Poynton LC - Poynton
Tom Gallon Manchester LC - Manchester Waconians
Tom Gosnay Stockport LC - Stockport
Glen Humphries Cheadle LC - Rochdale
Sam Russell Poynton LC Whittier - Poynton
Aaron Prosser LXM Pro Drexel
Matthew Sexton Penn State

Attack
Adrian Bennett Cheadle LC - Cheadle
Colin Clive Siena
Josh Roden Timperley LC Chico State
Nick Watson Heaton Mersey LC Adelphi - Oldham

Alternates
Tim Blower Timperley LC - Timperley
Sam Dexter Cheadle LC - Brooklands
Bill Fisher Poynton LC - Spencer

Summary:
Timperley x4
Stockport x3
Brooklands x2
Cheadle x2
Poynton x2
Boardman & Eccles
Heaton Mersey
Manchester Waconians
Mellor
Oldham
Rochdale
Spencer
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Re: England Squad

Postby UKLacrosse Thu May 29, 2014 4:36 pm

Good points Dave, and everyone will have their opinions on those.
How does the women's game deal with these issues? Do they hold 'open international' trials, do they actively seek to find non-domestic players who meet the FIL criteria? Maybe five US players who have learnt to play, and played their whole career in the US, would help us compete not just for bronze but maybe silver as well?
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Re: England Squad

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 29, 2014 5:42 pm

UKLacrosse wrote:Good points Dave, and everyone will have their opinions on those.
How does the women's game deal with these issues? Do they hold 'open international' trials, do they actively seek to find non-domestic players who meet the FIL criteria? Maybe five US players who have learnt to play, and played their whole career in the US, would help us compete not just for bronze but maybe silver as well?

I don't know the current situation, hopefully things have changed but what I do know is that in the past English girls were actively discouraged from going to play in US Colleges with the line "if you go you will never play for England"

Back to the men's the split of the squad is sensible from my view, only 4 pure attackers but with Glen Humphries & Tom Gosnay as back up. I assume both Chris Brady & Tom Gallon play SSDM and not just FOGO.

They will be playing in summer heat at altitude against Professional squads, so multiple defenders and middies is the rational choice, They will need to use the whole squad and not rely on the starters if they want to have success.

USA/Canada/Iroquois Nationals will be difficult outings but should be enjoyed, forget the scoreboard and concentrate on the process,

Australia & Japan are the games to target

if they can finish in the Top 6 it will be a successful trip

I would imagine there will be a number of teams gunning for England's position in the Blue Division
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Re: England Squad

Postby stevo Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:08 am

Out of curiosity has the ELA or Team England got a formal position on the questions regarding the purpose of the national squad?

is it purely to finish with as high a World ranking as possible to tap into some govt funding?

Is it the represent Lacrosse in this Country (NEMLA/SEMLA/BUSA) in order to inspire domestic players and give them a career pathway to reach the highest level?
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Re: England Squad

Postby Bravo1 Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:53 pm

Thats a very good question....

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