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ILLEGAL STICK

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cheekylaxstuff
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ILLEGAL STICK

Postby cheekylaxstuff Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:42 pm

ILLEGAL STICK

WHAT IS THE PENALTY ?
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mandy
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Postby mandy Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:27 pm

3 minutes i think (and that stick is taken out of the game?)
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Postby morrell_ben Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:28 pm

Different for face rules though? Isn't he just not allowed to use it again for faces? Trick construction i guess that is, like wedging it in the back of the stick.......
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Postby cheekylaxstuff Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:54 pm

Yeah that was the confusing bit , it was the face taker .that I said to a stockport fan,and b4 anyone starts I did not talk to anyone else

I mentioned that it seemed illegal -as he won the face with the ball in back of stick it was visibly stuck in the back

Next face , xheadle complained it was illegal - and the stick was then inspected.Couldnt see if he blew foul for front or back of stick though

Got 3 mins and stick thrown from game
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Postby cjlax Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am

I would presume if we are talking a decent Div and also League refs, then for the stick to be thrown out of the game, there must have been something wrong with the stick. Either too pinched, or the shaft too short etc ?!?!

The stick check does not include checking the back of the stick to see if the ball gets stuck!

However - - What do people think the call is if the pocket is too deep?
In the past I have seen this called. The ball is turned over to the other team and the player is told to go off the pitch and fix the pocket. However there is no send off and the stick can be replaced straight away or the whole player is replaced whilst the offending player fixes the pocket!
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Postby dmiddie Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:19 pm

If pocket is too deep then its still an illegal stick, so a penalty should be given? However the stick can be adjusted to legalise it. Nothing wrong with it then being used. Same with a stick too short, easily remedied by changing shaft.
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cheekylaxstuff
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Postby cheekylaxstuff Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:25 pm

he got 3 for the stick- and it was thrown out//two league refs
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Postby dmiddie Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:28 pm

So how do the refs know that he's adjusted the pocket and made it legal?
Again, I think you'll find that if the pocket is too deep and he adjusts it while taking the penalty then he can re-use it. Surely that makes sense?
Last edited by dmiddie on Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cjlax Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:43 pm

definitly - a stick can be re ued if the pocket is too deep, because you can change it.
Then if it's legal again, i suppose you couldn't discriminate against it just because it was illegal in the past!! Equal oppotunities and Human 'stick' rights and all!!!

Also i've seen a few little tricks before now, in which you pull one of the strings on the stick, which in turn tightens up the pocket and makes it a legal depth just before the check is taken!!! This, if done right, locks the strings tight enough to withstand a stick check!!!

Also.. Have two sticks which look identical, only one legal and one illegal, then swap and change as you like!!

(Disclaimer - I do not have anything like this, or ever had, I invite everyone in the world to check my sticks, on the condition you by me a pint when you're wrong!!)
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Postby dmiddie Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:57 pm

The first trick won't work any more!
You must now drop the stick the instant the stick check is called and the ref indicates its yours. Any touching of the head will immediately result in a penalty.
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Postby Ash Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:52 pm

another 3 minutes if you touch the head after a stick check is called. You can get up to 6 minutes that way.

I believe from what ive picked up from some of the more qualified refs in the south, that if the ball gets stuck in the back of the stick once you can still take face with it, a second time sees a banning for the stick for face. But as i say thats just my experience from asking some of the big refs when my ond vector was on the way out and used to trap the ball a bit.
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Postby S-t-r-e-t-c-h Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:12 pm

if u roll the head of your stick over the ball 45 degrees ish then press down the sidewall onto the ground you can pinch the ball in your stick.

loverly trick.
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Postby Moaning Git Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:17 pm

Correct call there Ash, trapped once in the face a reface is called. trapped again that stick can not be used to take face, but can be used to play. This is not however a stick check, and no penalty.

For that a team Head coach, or in the absence of the coach the captain needs to call for a check.
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Postby DommoBath Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:58 am

How does one go about checking the back of the stick (if indeed this should ever be done)?

Some say the meshs hould be pushed in and then the ball dropped in, other that the ball should be pushed in.
I recently received a minute penalty and stick called illegal for facing after such an incident. Ball only got stuck in the back once.
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Postby mandy Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:35 pm

DommoBath wrote:How does one go about checking the back of the stick (if indeed this should ever be done)?

Some say the meshs hould be pushed in and then the ball dropped in, other that the ball should be pushed in.
I recently received a minute penalty and stick called illegal for facing after such an incident. Ball only got stuck in the back once.

well thats the incorrect call all round - an illegal stick is 3 mins pen - as was only called illegal for facing why you got a minute who knows? esp as it was first time had happened

as the back of the stick forms no part of any (legal) stick check it shouldn't be done
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Postby UKLacrosse Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:47 pm

This has been aired several times here on the forum and indeed a couple of years ago a prominent Northern ref was discussing with me the banning of the Blade because the ball got stuck in the back of the head.

There is nothing in the rules which says that a stick inspection covers checking the back of the stick! I looked at endless numbers of sticks from different suppliers and dependent on the stringing nearly all the most up-to-date heads would retain the ball in the back of the stick. It is far more likely with the larger mesh e.g. 6-Diamond, where the thickness of the mesh is much greater.

Banning a specific supplier's head could be a huge issue, as the head would be legal under international rules, even under the more stringent existing NCAA rules!

That led to the 'referees and rules committee discussing how to cope with the ball sticking in the back of the stick at the face. That problem is already covered by the 'retaining the ball in the stick illegally' and the result would be 'change of possession'. However, my understanding is that the 'referees and rules' committee agreed to a new procedure which seems to be interpreted differently from one ref to another!

1. Some refs don't even know what the rule is!
2. Some apply a reface on the first occasion it happens.
3. Some refs apply a reface more than once.
4. Some refs apply a change of possession if it happens a second time.
5. Some refs ban the actual stick after (2) and (4).

Maybe this rule needs to be highlighted again??
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illegal stick

Postby phillaxref Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:03 pm

Well reading this thread you all have got most of the main points right for the definition of what shauld happen

Definition of an illegal stick can be any of the following.

1 Too Long

2 Too Short.

3 Too Narrow or wider than the specified dimension.

4 Trick or illegal stringing.

All of the above will lead to a 3 minute personal foul and the stick should be out of the game. As far as touching the head once a stick check has been called, a referee has to be clear that the player was clearly aware that this had been called and that he should not tamper with the stick in anyway. As Ash clearly states its 3 mins for touching the head and if the stick is illegal a further 3 minutes.

During a full stick check the official should check the rear face of the stick.

If during a face off the ball gets stuck in the rear of the stick then we should continue re facing the ball, As far as i am aware there is no defined number of times that you can reface the ball.
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Postby S-t-r-e-t-c-h Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:21 pm

if the ball gets stuck in the back of the stick, i hear the opposition are allowed one check to get it out of the stick and if it doesnt then its illegal.. hearsay, but ive heard it said a lot.

a guy who used to face off for a team i was in was able to clamp and bring the ball up one handed on the back of his stick whilst running into a fast break, fliping the ball out before passing. good face off guy.
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Postby Moaning Git Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:29 pm

Oooooerrrr Mother, I really don't want to go head to head with Phil on this so better be careful what I say, but if the ball gets stuck in the back at face it is a reface, and if it happens again the stick is not to be used for a reface was a rule interpretation that came up during a refs briefing last season when we were discussing the rule changes, I have used it since then, and it seems to make sense. I dare say Phil is correct in the absolute reading of the rule.
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Re: illegal stick

Postby UKLacrosse Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:46 pm

phillaxref wrote:During a full stick check the official should check the rear face of the stick.



Phil, is that really so, for retaining the ball? Firstly, I doubt that refs do check the rear of the stick for retention of the ball, and if so then the vast majority of sticks being used would fail - reason is that many sticks are close to the limit on being pinched these days and the ball will have minimal clearance on the side walls on the front face. Once you have mesh/ side strings to contend with then most strung heads these days will retain the ball on the reverse side. That would have been the case at this year's World Championships as well!
Last edited by UKLacrosse on Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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