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Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:28 pm
by green
I agree, p*ss funny!

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:12 am
by Jim13
Dining Room wrote:
davidmcculloch81 wrote:Did you have to give your Rochdale First Team water bottle back?


in effect, yes: copied the usual behaviour witnessed at most clubs: stopped training, started rumours of a the 1st team "click" whilst questioning selection policy, match-fees and why "they" have more water bottles than us lower-orders, newer kit and listened to music before games.


:lol:

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:51 am
by UKLaxfan
U19s Lacrosse & Senior Lacrosse

We've had the Euros & World U19s this summer

1) What have we learned?

2) Will it make any difference to domestic game?

3) Do we really care about National Teams?


OR

Are water bottles and reacting in classic form to being dropped more important?

Is lacrosse a Sport or a Hobby?

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:06 pm
by whopead
Lacrosse is deffinatley a sport. However i guess that for most it is only played as a hobby

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:08 am
by Dining Room
whopead wrote:Lacrosse is deffinatley a sport. However i guess that for most it is only played as a hobby


There is room for both!! Lots of people play football for a hobby and a few paid £1m/month to play. At 31 I still like winning but like many other amateur enthusiasts please don't pressure me to become a semi-pro athlete just so Jonny Junior can get on the County side, you don't need my to help you make it - do it yourself!

If your club isn't the best on a Saturday - find a great U19 team, get on the County scene, get seen by National Coaches and turn up to every tournament in the land. Run, jump. lift, wall-ball all without my help - just because I have a hobby it doesn't mean that you have to be the same or indeed that my attitude will stop you working towards your dream in the other 6 days a week!

Top level lacrosse is not for the chosen few but those who choose. A great read is Bounce by Matthew Syed - ex table tennis champion discussing practice being more important that talent.

I do take UKLF point - if you have potential to hit the top, success leaves clues so tune in to those that are doing the do.

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:06 am
by Waggy
it's non of the above, Lacrosse is a life style choice!!! :? 8) :wink:

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:56 am
by Ketts19
Amateur sport is a hobby - a recreational activity in your leisure time. How seriously you take that amateur sport does not alter the fact that it is still a leisure activity.

Professional sport (i.e. getting paid) is no longer a hobby, it's a job.

I think what UKLaxfan is getting at is that in this country lacrosse is an amateur sport, both in the overall level of ability and general attitude towards it. Whereas, in the US especially, it is more than just an amateur sport, but in reality is a big business and players get paid for their efforts, either directly (MLL, NLL, etc.) or via finacial assistance (NCAA scholarships - I'd consider getting my $30k a year uni fees paid for me like getting paid).

College sports are big business in the US, in the UK they're barely a footnote compared to professional sports leagues.

Speaking to a friend of mine recently, he mentioned that the JV High School team he coaches trains up to 6 times a week. Those with coaching experience will know that over here it can be hard enough getting your entire U14/U16 squad to train once a week, nevermind multiple times. I'm proud of how our national squads have competed this summer but, as the U19s worlds showed, there is clearly a gulf between the North American sides and the rest.

My own considered opinion is that trying to emulate what they do will not bridge the gap, the difference in scale of the resources and number of players available is too great. We should be looking to do things our way.

If US lacrosse is athletic and tactical, Canadian lacrosse is defined by box skills, what is English lacrosse :?: :?: :?:

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:11 pm
by UKLacrosse
We seem to focus upon the comparisons between us and the game in North America, and as has been said, this is somewhat futile. Why don't we just look and compare ourselves to other sports here in the UK e.g. how often do they train? I know for a fact that other 'amateur' sports train far harder and are far more committed than we see in lacrosse. We should be asking ourselves why that is, and what we can do to change that culture.

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
by Moaning Git
Oooooh this is an interesting exchange..... so I am saying nowt, otherwise it will just start a row!

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:12 pm
by buckers_the_great
Well as an example my sister plays netball for a local team. She trains once a week and they play either once or twice a week depending on cup games etc.

The advantages they have is its inside so weather and light are not a factor so an hours training can happen at 8pm whatever time of year. They also have smaller squads with only 7 players on the pitch which obviously is easier than getting 10/12 for Men's/Women's lacrosse.

The top end of their game is different with the super league on Sky and i'm sure those teams work harder but at a grass roots level they simply have a few advantages but certainly don't work any harder/differently to lacrosse from my experience.

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:20 pm
by Waggy
Moaning Git wrote:Oooooh this is an interesting exchange..... so I am saying nowt, otherwise it will just start a row!


Typical of you, seeing a constructive tread, coming in with your no comments, nothing constuctive to say. people like you should make me so cross!! :D :D :D :D

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:35 pm
by UKLacrosse
buckers_the_great wrote:Well as an example my sister plays netball for a local team. She trains once a week and they play either once or twice a week depending on cup games etc.

The advantages they have is its inside so weather and light are not a factor so an hours training can happen at 8pm whatever time of year. They also have smaller squads with only 7 players on the pitch which obviously is easier than getting 10/12 for Men's/Women's lacrosse.

The top end of their game is different with the super league on Sky and I'm sure those teams work harder but at a grass roots level they simply have a few advantages but certainly don't work any harder/differently to lacrosse from my experience.


There are other examples of sports where the player/ athlete never reaches international heights, maybe not even county level, but still trains and commits far more than most lacrosse players. My own experience as a middle distance, track, road and cross-country runner .... I trained every day of the week, sometimes twice. I played badminton to a fairly reasonable standard, and for many years trained and played competitively, nearly every day of the week. Others were doing the same. Many sports can throw up similar examples, where the athletes are striving to reach their potential. I was introduced to that type of training ethos at university, not at school, or the local athletics club. Maybe, just maybe, the growth of lacrosse at university will start to change that, as I know many of the university lacrosse guys are training several times per week .... something which is quite common for many university sports squads. Yes, they have the time and facilities, but hopefully that training regime will transfer and continue once they leave university.

Re: U19 - Thoughts and comments

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:42 pm
by Moaning Git
Ok Waggy you goaded me into it!

One of the things that really puzzles me is the disjoint between different sections of the sport.

I have heard so many times at different meetings people with influence in the sport say they have no interest in "elite" lacrosse, as if elite is a dirty word.

Interestingly those a lot of the minor sports at the Olympics are using elite success to jump start their club and junior level activities, so you would think that our clubs might consider using the success of our national squads in the Europeans, and the efforts of the U19s in a similar way, and instead of knocking elite sport celebrate it.

If as a sport our league and club reps have so little regard for the best we can deliver, even refering to club lacrosse as "real" lacrosse (as I have heard on more than one occasion as the erroneously name Players Forum), is it any suprise that it is so difficult to get players out to train? In my experience it is usually the juniors that are keenest to train and develop, and all to often when they get to a senior level they are sometimes given the impression that real players don't need to train!

Where this sort barely half hearted commitment to some sort of improvement exists, is it really suprising that new players are not attracted to the sport? To be honest things such as seniors turning out to train and walking late on the field smoking I find totally unacceptable, especially if younger players are present or involved, but how often do you see it happen? It may be ok for a Sunday pub team, but for a Sports Club? To me it simply highlights the lack of professionalism and the stubborn "we don't care what you think" attitude that you experience at many clubs. I am not saying all clubs are like this, or all teams in clubs, but be honest the attitude is there and it does not help in promoting the sport.

So why not start challenging these negative approaches, when someone starts slagging of the Elite end of the sport, tell the speaker to get back to Jurassic Park, encourage your club to become more proactive in developing and promoting the sport. Use your local development officer to help share resources and promote better training for your experienced and more especially new players.

I am starting to rant again so I will shut up ...... and if you don't like what I said, blame Waggy!