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Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:22 pm
by david s
Ex-Maryland captain discusses his time in the U.K playing for Durham University:

http://laxallstars.com/jeremy-sieverts-gets-branded/

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:27 pm
by webby
Good little article, but no actual comment on what he thinks of the level of lacrosse in the UK. No mention of their 20+ goal victories over every team they've come against!

Will be interesting to see Durham against some of the NEMLA Premiership teams.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:37 pm
by UKLaxfan
webby wrote:Good little article, but no actual comment on what he thinks of the level of lacrosse in the UK. No mention of their 20+ goal victories over every team they've come against!

Will be interesting to see Durham against some of the NEMLA Premiership teams.


Durham University are Legit

I've seen Heaton Mersey (x2) Cheadle & Rochdale play this season in the Premiership

I've seen Durham play once

Durham is the strongest team I've seen play this year

Stockport is the only team that might give Durham University a game

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:17 am
by Rotisserie
UKLaxfan wrote:Stockport is the only team that might give Durham University a game


No wonder with the scorelines they've been posting against some of the best universities.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:16 am
by UKLaxfan
Rotisserie wrote:
UKLaxfan wrote:Stockport is the only team that might give Durham University a game


No wonder with the scorelines they've been posting against some of the best universities.


It's not the scorelines that are important but the way they are playing the game.

It's sounds strange but they are not running the score up on teams, they are playing solid Team Lacrosse.

The game I watched was 23-2 but 20 goals were assisted

They were very strong defensively and impressive on transition, each player looking to push the ball to the open man upfield.

Nine different scorers, 6 players scored 3 goals or more, the two top scorers were (3,7) & (3,6) respectively.

They are a Big, physical, fast team with good skills and put team first

Stockport may give Durham some good competition but Durham University would be favourites.

If it was played on Astroturf, Durham would be strong favourites

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:56 am
by Tommy88
UKLaxfan wrote:
Rotisserie wrote:
UKLaxfan wrote:Stockport is the only team that might give Durham University a game


No wonder with the scorelines they've been posting against some of the best universities.


It's not the scorelines that are important but the way they are playing the game.

It's sounds strange but they are not running the score up on teams, they are playing solid Team Lacrosse.

The game I watched was 23-2 but 20 goals were assisted

They were very strong defensively and impressive on transition, each player looking to push the ball to the open man upfield.

Nine different scorers, 6 players scored 3 goals or more, the two top scorers were (3,7) & (3,6) respectively.

They are a Big, physical, fast team with good skills and put team first

Stockport may give Durham some good competition but Durham University would be favourites.

If it was played on Astroturf, Durham would be strong favourites


The bit of the interview that interested me the most is the part when he mentioned weather other University's were going to adopt the same system of recruiting Americans or weather BUCS will put a cap on the number of players a team can have, I personally believe that this cap is essential. I understand the the whole argument about Durham now having 3 teams in BUCS and the americans are developing their program but without their American's making up their numbers they would most likely only have 2 teams, just like Portsmouth, Nottingham and Manchester. To be honest Durham's 2nd team look very strong and I don't doubt that this is down to NCAA players teaching them but do they seriously need 13 of them to teach them? Teams like Oxford and St Andrews are a very good example of just how good a team can be with half the team being American and half English, plus their results are a bit more fair (understandably their American's are their for the academics not lax, but they still take it pretty seriously). We have just this year managed to get a coach from the states, he seems far more intent of bringing in a couple of English players with county experience on scholarships to play alongside members of our team who have only been playing just over a year. I think its insane that a team who could beat Stockport, arguably the countries best club side, are playing in a competition that has teams with players with only one or two years experience under their belts. I feel sorry for the rest of the teams, firstly in the Northern Prem because it looks like things could be exciting and unpredictable with results like yesterdays win for Manchester Uni over St Andrews which I didn't see coming and was most likely a hard fought game, but no matter how hard those teams play they have to accept that Durham are going to win their league, also you have teams wishing they were competing in the BUCS trophy rather than championship, because lets face it, if your beating teams like Sheffield Hallam 19-1 their are not many other teams who are going to give you even the slightest bit of opposition. I know their has been rows upon rows on these forums about weather what Durham are doing is good or bad, I believe that it is good in one sense, It is going to force other University's to up their game, perhaps start some recruiting programs, but in my opinion if it is going to be fair at all their needs to be some sort of cap.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:25 am
by gazmanofhull
Tommy88...well said! Totally agree!

On Sunday, Durham came to the Freshers event in York. They had just 6 freshers there and had to there two american coaches to be able to compete (and to be fair those two put in zero effort which was pleasing to see). I just hope that in just over a weeks time they bring a full complement to Sheffield for Round 2 and we can see if they are developing new players better than Leeds Met, Hull, York and Newcastle, which you would really expect them to be doing given there resources!!!

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:19 pm
by Moaning Git
Stockport may give Durham some good competition but Durham University would be favourites.

If it was played on Astroturf, Durham would be strong favourites


The proof of the pudding as they say.... maybe a sponsor could be found to fund a challenge game.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:50 pm
by young_trig
Moaning Git wrote:
Stockport may give Durham some good competition but Durham University would be favourites.

If it was played on Astroturf, Durham would be strong favourites


The proof of the pudding as they say.... maybe a sponsor could be found to fund a challenge game.


We already have the Wilkinson and Iroquois trophies for the SEMLA and NEMLA cup and league winners.
Could a fixture be introduced that has the winner of BUCS play against the winners of the either the league or cup in NEMLA or SEMLA?

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:19 pm
by the pom
it would be good to see as a one off this year but as a regular game if durham lost thier funding and were unable to load the team with ex NCAA players it would be a white wash.

only about 5 people and a dog came to watch the referes trophy this year

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:23 pm
by young_trig
the pom wrote:it would be good to see as a one off this year but as a regular game if durham lost thier funding and were unable to load the team with ex NCAA players it would be a white wash.

only about 5 people and a dog came to watch the referes trophy this year


Did the dog enjoy it?

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:41 pm
by UKLaxfan
the pom wrote:it would be good to see as a one off this year but as a regular game if durham lost thier funding and were unable to load the team with ex NCAA players it would be a white wash.

only about 5 people and a dog came to watch the referes trophy this year


The Referee's Trophy suffered because of the rearranged Ted Donnet Tournament and the canceling of the U17 County Game

Mersey were lucky only 5 men & a dog watched the game as they got thrashed 19-2 by Stockport :shock:

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:04 pm
by UKLaxfan
Tommy88 wrote:The bit of the interview that interested me the most is the part when he mentioned weather other University's were going to adopt the same system of recruiting Americans or weather BUCS will put a cap on the number of players a team can have.


Why should BUCS put a cap on the number of overseas students?

Durham have done nothing illegal.

Tommy88 wrote:Teams like Oxford and St Andrews are a very good example of just how good a team can be with half the team being American and half English, plus their results are a bit more fair (understandably their American's are their for the academics not lax, but they still take it pretty seriously).


Durham post-graduate students are here for academics.

BUCS lacrosse is not the highest standard lacrosse these guys have played, academics and lacrosse.

Tommy88 wrote:I think its insane that a team who could beat Stockport, arguably the countries best club side, are playing in a competition that has teams with players with only one or two years experience under their belts. I feel sorry for the rest of the teams, firstly in the Northern Prem because it looks like things could be exciting and unpredictable with results like yesterdays win for Manchester Uni over St Andrews which I didn't see coming and was most likely a hard fought game, but no matter how hard those teams play they have to accept that Durham are going to win their league, also you have teams wishing they were competing in the BUCS trophy rather than championship, because lets face it, if your beating teams like Sheffield Hallam 19-1 their are not many other teams who are going to give you even the slightest bit of opposition. I know their has been rows upon rows on these forums about weather what Durham are doing is good or bad, I believe that it is good in one sense, It is going to force other University's to up their game, perhaps start some recruiting programs, but in my opinion if it is going to be fair at all their needs to be some sort of cap.


This is what the argument comes down to each time... it's not fair

Durham University have done nothing wrong, the players have done nothing wrong

Durham recognised an opportunity to dominate a new BUCS sport and took advantage of it

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:32 pm
by davidmcculloch81
UKLaxfan wrote:The Referee's Trophy suffered because of the rearranged Ted Donnet Tournament and the canceling of the U17 County Game

Mersey were lucky only 5 men & a dog watched the game as they got thrashed 19-2 by Stockport :shock:


The Referee's Trophy suffered due to a Sheffield University fun bus and a small slice of apathy. If you want this game to take on any significance take it out of season (maybe as a curtain-raiser a week before the season starts a la Community Shield. Most clubs are playing friendlies anyway on this day) and play it on a better surface than Wilmslow Sand Trap (TM).

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:13 pm
by Tommy88
UKLaxfan wrote:This is what the argument comes down to each time... it's not fair

Durham University have done nothing wrong, the players have done nothing wrong

Durham recognised an opportunity to dominate a new BUCS sport and took advantage of it


I dont want to come across as saying either Durham or their players have done anything wrong, as you said Durham saw an opportunity and took it. Plus, if I was an NCAA player and saw the chance to study at a university as good as Durham and play lax with very talented players I would jump at the chance. I am simply looking at the long term, I believe if a sort of cap is not introduced one of two things are going to happen, either 1) Durham are going to continue to recruit NCAA players who have just come from playing for a D1,D2 or D3 college where they train every day at the highest level, they then beat this countries best university teams such as sheffield by 20+ goals and win the BUCS gold every year. Or 2) other university's begin to follow suit and then these teams dominate their leagues and the knockout rounds, with most English players struggling to get any play in these teams. I am simply saying that if the durham team today had half the Americans they have in that team, plus half of their second team they would still have a very good shot at winning BUCS gold and the English players would get some great playing experience and be able to say they won a BUCS gold. I am not trying to infuse another forum page full of anti Durham posts, what I am trying to get at is that I believe university's in this country should be more interested in recruiting some of our talented young club players, that way we can not only improve the standard of university lacrosse in this country, but also its a great chance to offer good education to young lax players, Basically it would be nice to see more teams like the Sheffield University's, Nottingham and Portsmouth (who have just got a group of Blues players who are helping the University's programme a lot). I am only trying to suggest what I think would improve University lacrosse in England, not ridicule Durham for what they are doing.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:21 pm
by GarethBrown
Tommy88 wrote:
UKLaxfan wrote:This is what the argument comes down to each time... it's not fair

Durham University have done nothing wrong, the players have done nothing wrong

Durham recognised an opportunity to dominate a new BUCS sport and took advantage of it


I dont want to come across as saying either Durham or their players have done anything wrong, as you said Durham saw an opportunity and took it. Plus, if I was an NCAA player and saw the chance to study at a university as good as Durham and play lax with very talented players I would jump at the chance. I am simply looking at the long term, I believe if a sort of cap is not introduced one of two things are going to happen, either 1) Durham are going to continue to recruit NCAA players who have just come from playing for a D1,D2 or D3 college where they train every day at the highest level, they then beat this countries best university teams such as sheffield by 20+ goals and win the BUCS gold every year. Or 2) other university's begin to follow suit and then these teams dominate their leagues and the knockout rounds, with most English players struggling to get any play in these teams. I am simply saying that if the durham team today had half the Americans they have in that team, plus half of their second team they would still have a very good shot at winning BUCS gold and the English players would get some great playing experience and be able to say they won a BUCS gold. I am not trying to infuse another forum page full of anti Durham posts, what I am trying to get at is that I believe university's in this country should be more interested in recruiting some of our talented young club players, that way we can not only improve the standard of university lacrosse in this country, but also its a great chance to offer good education to young lax players, Basically it would be nice to see more teams like the Sheffield University's, Nottingham and Portsmouth (who have just got a group of Blues players who are helping the University's programme a lot). I am only trying to suggest what I think would improve University lacrosse in England, not ridicule Durham for what they are doing.



You've gone absolutely mental if you think that in the current funding climate universities are going to start throwing money around for lacrosse players!!!

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but it's very unrealistic to suggest. I'm not sure how the structure at Durham works, financially, but I can only assume they are recruiting American players onto undersubscribed courses, which would mean they are actually gaining money rather than, as appears on the face of it, losing it.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:21 pm
by mikejbrand
Thanks for re-posting my interview and I will make LaxAllStars aware of the attention it is getting on this forum.

As for the ethical or legality issues with Durham Uni's abundance of Americans, why are people complaining about this? More good lacrosse players in your country can't hurt. It is a great thing that a couple unis have put an importance on lacrosse. Hopefully it creates a domino effect and the whole country will begin to support lacrosse as they should. It will make English kids who play with the NCAA players exponentially better.

It certainly happens over here in the states in other sports. Canadians have been playing college lacrosse in the states for years and they have been met with nothing but open arms. They bring a different aspect to the game that yanks like myself love to see.

Obviously association football does it all over America.

This team is out of Ohio and currently ranked #1.
Here is their roster

Here are their fixtures

See any similarities?

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:53 pm
by the pom
It cannot be fun to play.

Winning every week by 20 goals and not even trying against poor completion for ex NCAA players where the enjoyment is.
I don’t think Durham is doing any thing wrong they are lucky to have the ability to attract such players but I cannot believe they are here for the lax.

how do the players not brought in for their lax ability feel I bet a number of players who would benefit from playing in the top division are held back and suffer in the seconds/thirds and after the American have gone back home are worse players for the experience.

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:09 pm
by kael101
I think Durham are fortunate that they can afford to be able to bring over NCAA players to the UK.

Do i think it will catch on? I think with Budget cuts coming up it wont at all.

The northern BUCS premiership might as well just be called a right off because i dont think the previous contenders will be able to afford it/will. What are the chances that a university like Nottingham Trent or Sheffield Hallam will be able to bring over NCAA class athletes even if for a paid scholarship? I cant even get 10 gloves for a development team let alone £4000 for one player.

Im all for the development for Lacrosse and i dont think that Durham have done anything 'Bad' i think they have exploited a weakness in the Lacrosse set up and the Bucs set up and for them it is working dividends. Its great that Durham students can learn and play against some of the best players in the world but will it affect the development of other teams?

If i were to take Trent to Durham then firstly we would get annihilated, secondly it would dishearten some of the players who have been playing for 1/2 years and thirdly it would make us look bad from an outside perspective. If we look bad then how many potential lacrosse players will look as us as a "decent" lacrosse uni?

What will happen? Personally i think Durham will continue to win the northern premiership, threads like this will crop up every year and other than that nothing will change.\

Just my 2 cents..

Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:35 pm
by webby
Durham players are not here on free-rides. They are here on reduced fees. They don't pay international students fees, instead they pay something nearer to UK/EU fees, which is significantly less than US fees. So in terms of money, as far as I'm aware, Durham aren't really losing out if 13 NCAA players come in vs 13 EU students. They are primarily here to get their Masters, and the fact that they play lacrosse and help develop the program means they pay a lot less.

I watched the Hallam vs Durham game yesterday. Durham were cruising throughout, but Hallam continued to fight and the Durham guys respected that. They weren't running the score up, but from what I saw, they were probably coasting in 3rd gear. They could easily, by the looks of it, step it up a level or three.

Rumours have it that the American and English players last year asked the Durham AU for LESS Americans - somewhere around 5 - but the AU went and brought in 13...

Will be interesting as to what numbers they bring in next year, or if they offer similar deals to other international-based lacrosse stars.