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Sieverts on life at Durham University

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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby UKLaxfan Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:20 pm

ibop wrote:The guys reckon he is in sufficient form to get a place with a US college.


I reckon he is in form for a Senior England call up, excellent skills & athleticism
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby dmiddie Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:31 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:
dmiddie wrote:I can see it all now -

Due to increased tuition fees and less government funding, less UK and EU students can afford to fill university places, both undergraduate and post graduate. This leads to universities looking further afield to fill places, maybe even postgrad lacrosse players on cheap Masters courses? These guys take out loans in the US that they can hardly afford to repay, the lenders package up these loans into CDS’s and sell them on to gullible British banks! These banks run into financial problems and the British government prints money to bail them out. Bingo, we end up with NCAA lacrosse players raising the level of lacrosse at UK universities, paid for by the British government, despite pulling the plug on funding university places for UK students. Result, students take to the streets to march and protest at the injustice of it all!


Chicken Licken strikes again :lol:

I think you should put your tinfoil hat on and hide under the bed


So who's Foxy Loxy, or maybe only Cocky Locky? :D
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby UKLaxfan Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:31 pm

dmiddie wrote:So who's Foxy Loxy? :D

Nina :wink:
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby webby Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:45 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:
ibop wrote:The guys reckon he is in sufficient form to get a place with a US college.


I reckon he is in form for a Senior England call up, excellent skills & athleticism


Kyle Standiford, the Durham & Newcastle LSM who played at Amherst is also elligible to play for England as he was born in London. Ask anyone who has played with him, against him, or has seen him play and I bet they'll tell you that he definitely has a chance of earning a place in the squad.
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby 6x6 Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:52 am

Ketts19 wrote:
UKLaxfan wrote:
The NCAA takes students from all over the World who are the best at their sport

There are no restrictions on number of Canadian Ice Hockey or Lacrosse players
or Kenyan middle distance runners, or New Zealand Rugby players

(


But (correct me if I'm wrong) there is a cap on the number of scholarships (full, half, athletic and/or academic) offered is there not?


Sorry I'm a bit tired as it's late where I am but if you're inquiring about the NCAA the answer is yes and no. DI lacrosse they are allowed 12.6 full rides, DII 10.8 and DIII does not offer athletic scholarships nor does the Ivy League schools, but there is no limit on what financial aid they can award (at least to my knowlege).

To UKlaxfan's point, let me provide an example. While finishing her gradutae work in Sports Medicine/Athletic Training, my daughter was the trainer for the women's volllyball team and the women's tennis team at Texas State University. The school has approximately 25,000 students. When she was there, there were only 2 American girls on the tennis team.

Check out the link for the roster and you'll notice that there are no Americans on the team for the upcoming season.

http://www.txstatebobcats.com/roster.aspx?path=wten

I guess the Athletic Director doesn't have a problem importing outside talent!
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby the pom Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:12 am

So that American UNI is no benefit to American tennis players.

do you have to pay to watch NCAA games?

The difference is in the UK the tax payer funds the uni so we are paying for American players to fill rosters stopping English players playing and subsidizing foreign education at no benefit to the tax payer.

Yes they pay a fee but it not the true cost.
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby Nikon Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:47 am

the pom wrote:So that American UNI is no benefit to American tennis players.

do you have to pay to watch NCAA games?

The difference is in the UK the tax payer funds the uni so we are paying for American players to fill rosters stopping English players playing and subsidizing foreign education at no benefit to the tax payer.

Yes they pay a fee but it not the true cost.



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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby dmiddie Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:15 pm

the pom wrote:So that American UNI is no benefit to American tennis players.

do you have to pay to watch NCAA games?

The difference is in the UK the tax payer funds the uni so we are paying for American players to fill rosters stopping English players playing and subsidizing foreign education at no benefit to the tax payer.

Yes they pay a fee but it not the true cost.


Someone who does understand tax and finance. At a time when there's massive arguments over the government financing of further education it might be argued that uni's should get every last $ out of foreign students who wish to take up education here, not let them pay reduced fees. We may all love lacrosse and want to see it develop in this country, but some would argue that higher education of UK students is a more fundamental issue, and should be dealt with first. Then again, some people are still living in a dream world believing that you can continue to borrow to overspend, or just print what money you don't have. Some say that some uni's have plenty of money but believe it or not, its not necessarily hard cash and available to spend, otherwise they would not be trying to raise tuition fees.
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby davidmcculloch81 Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:58 pm

dmiddie wrote:
the pom wrote:So that American UNI is no benefit to American tennis players.

do you have to pay to watch NCAA games?

The difference is in the UK the tax payer funds the uni so we are paying for American players to fill rosters stopping English players playing and subsidizing foreign education at no benefit to the tax payer.

Yes they pay a fee but it not the true cost.


Someone who does understand tax and finance. At a time when there's massive arguments over the government financing of further education it might be argued that uni's should get every last $ out of foreign students who wish to take up education here, not let them pay reduced fees. We may all love lacrosse and want to see it develop in this country, but some would argue that higher education of UK students is a more fundamental issue, and should be dealt with first. Then again, some people are still living in a dream world believing that you can continue to borrow to overspend, or just print what money you don't have. Some say that some uni's have plenty of money but believe it or not, its not necessarily hard cash and available to spend, otherwise they would not be trying to raise tuition fees.


From August 2010:

the bbc wrote:Foreign students are worth an estimated £8bn to the UK and the fees they pay for their courses underpin the finances of the higher education sector.


Full article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/08/foreign_students_boost_immigra.html
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby davidmcculloch81 Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:05 pm

OR,
You could carry on blaming foreigners for everything.

How's swine flu getting on by the way? Has it killed everybody yet?
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby Tommy88 Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:39 pm

6x6 wrote:
Ketts19 wrote:
UKLaxfan wrote:
The NCAA takes students from all over the World who are the best at their sport

There are no restrictions on number of Canadian Ice Hockey or Lacrosse players
or Kenyan middle distance runners, or New Zealand Rugby players

(


But (correct me if I'm wrong) there is a cap on the number of scholarships (full, half, athletic and/or academic) offered is there not?


Sorry I'm a bit tired as it's late where I am but if you're inquiring about the NCAA the answer is yes and no. DI lacrosse they are allowed 12.6 full rides, DII 10.8 and DIII does not offer athletic scholarships nor does the Ivy League schools, but there is no limit on what financial aid they can award (at least to my knowlege).

To UKlaxfan's point, let me provide an example. While finishing her gradutae work in Sports Medicine/Athletic Training, my daughter was the trainer for the women's volllyball team and the women's tennis team at Texas State University. The school has approximately 25,000 students. When she was there, there were only 2 American girls on the tennis team.

Check out the link for the roster and you'll notice that there are no Americans on the team for the upcoming season.

http://www.txstatebobcats.com/roster.aspx?path=wten

I guess the Athletic Director doesn't have a problem importing outside talent!


Firstly in relation to the talk about the 'cap' I think there has been some confusion. I think in the interview the cap was in relation to NCAA players on lacrosse specific scholarships, not just anyone from America. For example if someone from America played lax at high school, or were even a Rhode scholar from Cornell, Princeton or wherever and came over to study at Oxford and was turned away simply because he was American and they had filled their quota that would be insane. The cap I was referring to was to perhaps limit Durham to 5 scholars rather than 13 (which by the sounds of it they requested last year). I also have to disagree with the comparison of BUCS to NCAA, its all fine saying that lots of American uni's bring in a number of English players to play football or other foreign players to play tennis, but does that mean its a good idea?...Correct me If i'm wrong but the influx of British footballers into American Uni's has not improved the MLS! I'm not saying that the Americans at Durham are not improving the lax there because obviously they are, or that if any other uni could (or had the money to) bring in a few NCAA players on scholarships it would not improve lax in Britain. But justifying it simply by saying its fine because the same thing happens in the states seem's a little pointless. The NCAA is an enormous competition broadcast world wide, which in many sports, including Lax, American Football, Basketball and Baseball over there is a stepping stone to the pro's....BUCS on the other hand is not. Yes many university's here have students who have and will represent their countries and clubs at their sports, but as mentioned, with the current climate sport is the last thing on the minds of most university's.
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby 6x6 Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:52 pm

the pom wrote:So that American UNI is no benefit to American tennis players.

do you have to pay to watch NCAA games?

The difference is in the UK the tax payer funds the uni so we are paying for American players to fill rosters stopping English players playing and subsidizing foreign education at no benefit to the tax payer.

Yes they pay a fee but it not the true cost.


First, I used an example I was familiair with. I don't have a problem with a school in the states bringing in foreign student athletes.

Second, yes for a variety of sports you do have to pay to watch games. Probably not for regular dual meet tennis matches but many others you do and certainly for playoffs (flags) entrance fees are charged.

Third, there are two types of universities in the states, public and private. All the public universities are tax payer funded just like those in the UK. Even private universities receive taxpayer support and funding in a variety of ways. The largest break is that they may be exempt from paying property taxes. In addition, public tax dollars pay for roads, sewers, utlities, or other infrastructure that may directly benefit the school.

I understand your viewpoint and that of others. Far be it for me to tell anyone how it should be in the UK. However, I'm not ready to send all the UK kids playing soccer or other sports at American schools home because they are denying an American a spot on the team. I play golf and follow golf. I don't have a problem when a school here invites guys like Colin Montgomerie, Luke Donald or Paul Casey to play here.

I'd rather applaud Luke Donald rather than complain that an American was denied an opportunity, when Luke won the NCAA golf championship (breaking Tiger Woods scoring record) in 1999.

I'm for diversity on college campuses and think sport is one small way to achieve that diversity. In fact, the daughter mentioned in my previous post is now rooming with a graduate student from Japan at the university where she now works. I think it's a great experience for my daughter and who knows, maybe the small amount of Japanese she's learning may come in handy some day. :wink:
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Re: Sieverts on life at Durham University

Postby 6x6 Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:44 pm

Tommy88 wrote:
6x6 wrote:
Ketts19 wrote:
UKLaxfan wrote:
The NCAA takes students from all over the World who are the best at their sport

There are no restrictions on number of Canadian Ice Hockey or Lacrosse players
or Kenyan middle distance runners, or New Zealand Rugby players

(


But (correct me if I'm wrong) there is a cap on the number of scholarships (full, half, athletic and/or academic) offered is there not?


Sorry I'm a bit tired as it's late where I am but if you're inquiring about the NCAA the answer is yes and no. DI lacrosse they are allowed 12.6 full rides, DII 10.8 and DIII does not offer athletic scholarships nor does the Ivy League schools, but there is no limit on what financial aid they can award (at least to my knowlege).

To UKlaxfan's point, let me provide an example. While finishing her gradutae work in Sports Medicine/Athletic Training, my daughter was the trainer for the women's volllyball team and the women's tennis team at Texas State University. The school has approximately 25,000 students. When she was there, there were only 2 American girls on the tennis team.

Check out the link for the roster and you'll notice that there are no Americans on the team for the upcoming season.

http://www.txstatebobcats.com/roster.aspx?path=wten

I guess the Athletic Director doesn't have a problem importing outside talent!


I also have to disagree with the comparison of BUCS to NCAA, its all fine saying that lots of American uni's bring in a number of English players to play football or other foreign players to play tennis, but does that mean its a good idea?...Correct me If i'm wrong but the influx of British footballers into American Uni's has not improved the MLS! I'm not saying that the Americans at Durham are not improving the lax there because obviously they are, or that if any other uni could (or had the money to) bring in a few NCAA players on scholarships it would not improve lax in Britain. But justifying it simply by saying its fine because the same thing happens in the states seem's a little pointless. The NCAA is an enormous competition broadcast world wide, which in many sports, including Lax, American Football, Basketball and Baseball over there is a stepping stone to the pro's....BUCS on the other hand is not. Yes many university's here have students who have and will represent their countries and clubs at their sports, but as mentioned, with the current climate sport is the last thing on the minds of most university's.


Tommy I understand your point about university finances, believe me it is an ongoing debate here as well. You may have read or heard the University of California recently cut 5 varsity sports including Rugby which they've had since 1892, baseball and women's lacrosse. Rutgers U also dropped 6 sports in order to cut expenses.

I agree with your point about the MLS not improving due to UK players but I'm guessing that is not the school's intent when they bring in foreign players. IMO opinion they bring in those players for two reasons, they think they will help them win championships which brings prestige to the school and it also allows schools to import other students by showing they have a diverse student population. Universities here all prominently advertise the fact thay have strudents from all over America and many foreign countries. So only those schools can determine, perhaps like Durham, whether importing foreign student athletes has been successful or achieved the desired result.

Also, while I agree with your point regarding the difference between collegiate sport in America vs the BUCS, I disagree with your suggestion or implication that everyone playing sports at American schools are turning pro. The link below from the NCAA is very enlightening about this. There are millions of boys and girls are playing high school sports in the U.S. However, on average less than 10% of these kids get to play varsity sport in college. Check the link and you'll see that 1.6% of NCAA soccer players will ever make to the MLS, and we know the MLS is nowhere near the Premiership. Yes, football is huge here and all over the tv, yet only 1.7% of those kids you see on the tv will make it in the NFL. NCAA hockey players come out a bit better with 3.8% of them making it to the NHL.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome ... +Competing
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