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England out of the medal round ??

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j1ba0
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England out of the medal round ??

Postby j1ba0 Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:48 pm

do they have the standings procedure documented online ANYWHERE ?

Australia, Japan and England will have the same points...
matches between - the same points... goal difference in matches between Aus 0, Japan +1, England -1...
now the commentators said that maybe the goal difference in ALL the matches will count...

any definite answer ??
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby Paul_lboro/wildcats Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:45 pm

Good question. Final verdict from the commentators seemed to be that it was just between the 3. Therefor England are gone.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby Sour37 Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:33 pm

pretty sure there's still some games before that comes into play though
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby gazmanofhull Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:41 pm

England still in third after tonights game. Need amassive defensive performance tomorrow night against Canada and hope Germany give Australia a game and the US batter Japan and all is good...

http://www.2010worldlacrosse.com/results/?cmd=group-standings
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rpowell
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby rpowell Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:49 pm

I cannot find a copy of either the FIL or older ILF document, but believe that it will be similar to the rules used for the European Championships. See
http://www.europeanlacrosse.org/docs/EL ... _Rules.pdf

Let's just assume, for the sake of this argument, that:
USA beat Japan
Austalia beat Germany
Canada beat Japan.

Australia, England and Japan would all have the same number of points.

Next you look at the points, but only in the games played between the teams concerned. The teams are in a nice little triangle of Japan beating Australia, who beat England, who beat Japan. Still no difference.

After that, you look at the goal difference, but again, only in the games between the teams concerned. As the earlier poster pointed out, that would put Japan into 3rd place in the Blue division, Australia into 4th, and England into 5th.

So, unless Germany beat Australia (which is not completely impossible - they had a close game with Japan until the last quarter, and Japan did beat the Aussies) then on Thursday England will be in a match against the losers of one of the play-in matches. That could be Ireland, Scotland, or even Australia.

If they win that game, they get into the 5th/6th match on Saturday.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby gazmanofhull Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:52 pm

Just dug it out from the game schedule I was handed the othr day, Points, then Goal Difference, then Fewest goals Conceded, then Most Goals Scored, then Least Personal Penalty time served and finally, Least Technical Penalty time served.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby RJ100 Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:13 am

Goal difference will be crucial tomorrow assuming USA beat Japan, Australia beat German and Canada beat England:

England GD -4
Japan GD -6
Australia -30

at the moment.

England have the advantage of knowing what they need to do in the final match.

Whoever finishes third will play Wales or Holland in the next round. The fourth place finisher will play Scotland or Ireland. (I think!)

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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby UKLaxfan Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:18 am

Germany must beat Australia by any score

otherwise GD of the game of tied teams

3rd Japan +1
4th Australia 0
5th England -1

If Germany Win (any score)

3rd England
4th Japan
5th Germany
6th Australia

Everyone needs to support Germany

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If you see an Aussie, get him drunk just in case he is on the team :D
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby Paul_lboro/wildcats Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:55 am

Got to say I will be gutted if England finish 5th but I will say the games between England-Australia-Japan were all incredible and am happy to just to have been able to see them.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby UKLaxfan Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:52 am

All 108 games of the World Championship are available to view or download at www.247.tv On Demand

A Coach's dream :mrgreen:
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby auslax Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:02 pm

I don't think any Aussie fan will be particularly enthused by sneaking through to the 3 v 4 chance on a technicality. In a scrimmage v Germany the Sharks were pushed all the way so the result today is certainly not a forgone conclusion.

What all this points out is that German and Japanese lax has come a long way and that Australian and English lacrosse is stagnant at best. Not to say that it is a bad spectacle but if you're from the English lax community or the Aussie Lac community you'd be forgiven for being a bit worried.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby Sam H Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:22 pm

Anyone else see the ridiculous trick goal Japan scored against the Aussies? Made me chuckle.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby whopead Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:48 pm

It doesnt say in the rulings tht its head to head goal diff that counts. So if its all games then england are in with a shout of making 3rd or 4th
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby jsgi Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:22 pm

Sam H wrote:Anyone else see the ridiculous trick goal Japan scored against the Aussies? Made me chuckle.

Wales did a simalar thing today against Holland. McDermott and Stanford. I'm sure I have seem them try it for hitchin in the past but this one was executed to perfection.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby jsgi Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:23 pm

The hope the the German's may beat the Aussies is not a good one as it waas 6-0 Aus at the end of the first quarter.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby danscott Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:53 pm

jsgi wrote:
Sam H wrote:Anyone else see the ridiculous trick goal Japan scored against the Aussies? Made me chuckle.

Wales did a simalar thing today against Holland. McDermott and Stanford. I'm sure I have seem them try it for hitchin in the past but this one was executed to perfection.


Ahh, that one is a classic.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby rpowell Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:30 pm

whopead wrote:It doesnt say in the rulings tht its head to head goal diff that counts. So if its all games then england are in with a shout of making 3rd or 4th


I'm afraid it does say that in the rules.

I think incorrect information may have been printed in programmes, but the Championship Rules have been set this way since somewhere just after 1994.
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby gazmanofhull Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:56 pm

Then why has the table been listed by overall goal difference until now. If it is overall goal difference then england will have just scrapped through!!!
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby rpowell Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:46 pm

gazmanofhull wrote:Then why has the table been listed by overall goal difference until now. If it is overall goal difference then england will have just scrapped through!!!

It doesn't matter how the table has been listed. The table has probably been put together by someone who doesn't understand the rules of the competition.

Treat that table as for interest value only, like stats on ground balls.
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dmiddie
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Re: England out of the medal round ??

Postby dmiddie Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:05 am

I guess we have to humbly accept the fact that the only results which really matter are those between those involved. Someone has already stated that Euro's were using that system and the ELF would have followed FIL rules rather than make up their own. Its tough to take, but can it really be dependent on how evenly handed the USA and Canada are on by how big a margin of defeat they hand out? We all know that they are never going to rack up as many goals as they can against lesser opposition once they get 10+ goals ahead.

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