European club championship 2012 Stockholm

[Old Goalie]

Hi,
We are the hosts for the Champions cup 2012 in Stockholm Sweden.
We are trying to set a standard for the tournement, for example we want the tournement to start the same weekend every year.
so we need some help to collect info for example, when does the leagues in Great Britain start and finish.
how many spots does england deserves etc...
what more do you think we need to think of and get on paper so it would get easier for every hosting team.

Our highest priority is to get a tournement date by the end of december so we have some work to do.
European Lacrosse need this tournement.

regards
Farsta Lacrosse

[rpowell]

Hi there,

Scotland
The Scottish League starts the first weekend in October. We'd only be looking to send one team.

England
I don't speak on behalf of England, but... I would strongly recommend that they be offered two places - one for the Champions of their Southern Region, one for the Champions of their Northern Region.

Rob

[UKLaxfan]

The English game is split into two leagues (One North & One South)

North : (League starts end of September and finishes in late April depending on weather cancelling winter fixtures)
http://englishlacrosse.leaguerepublic.c ... ue=2885817

South:
http://www.southlacrosse.org.uk/tables.html

Personally I believe it is important that both NEMLA & SEMLA should be represented at this competition and if the Top Clubs in each League decide they can't attend due to cost or commitments then the next highest team should be offered the spot even if it goes down to the 5th, 6th or lower Teams.

Representation is important for the development of this tournament and if the Top teams don't wish to take part it will open the door for lower teams to have the opportunity for other players to play representative lacrosse.

Currently from NEMLA the order would be:-
1 Stockport
2 Cheadle
3 Heaton Mersey
4 Timperley
5 Wilmslow
6 Manchester Wacs
7 Boardman & Eccles
8 Sheffield University
9 Rochdale
10 Sheffield Steelers

One of the problems facing Stockport & Cheadle etc is that most of their players have had National Team exposure and have had to pay for World & European Championships Internationally, once you go further down the League there are less and less International players on Teams so playing in a European Club Championship becomes more attractive as a "once in a lifetime" experience.

It would be a shame if England as one of the more traditional European Lacrosse powers, couldn't find two clubs to take up the challenge.

This is not a slight on any of the Top Clubs or individual players it is just an economic reality, where it simply isn't possible for individuals to pay for every commitment they have open to them with USA Tours becoming almost an annual event for England Squad players or the cost of training Camps etc

This is just a personal opinion, I would have loved to have played in an International Club competition when I was a player unfortunately that opportunity wasn't available in the old days.

[Fat bastard]

Hi

In 2012, the Czech field lacrosse league is going to be played from the end of May until the first weekend in October. Also note the term of the Prague Cup 2012 (June 14-17, 2012).

[Old Goalie]

Hmmm this is going to be tricky,
The answers i got so far on mail and on the forums is that every wekeend from september to the end of oktober is actually every league starts or ends.
And trust me guys you do not want to play lacrosse in sweden,norway and finland in november, december. The crosses last for about 5 min.

I do understand and agree with uklacrosse.
It seems money is going to be a big issue,
Wich means that it's has to be held in major citys to keep the flight costs down.

Our thought's in the participating teams issue is that every nation has the right to send one team, except for England who will have one spot for the south league and one for the north.
But we also want that the defending champions should be allowed to defend there title.
How do we chose among the leagues if there is more contenders than spots.
We think that the ranking should be made by the nation ranking in the last european championship.
Yes, some national teams do have a lot of player who does not live in europe but still i think it is the easiest way to solve that problem.

More thoughts please...

[rpowell]

Not such a big problem - if you give associations and teams enough notice - and I mean something like 6 months - of the exact date, then people can work around their leagues.

Teams in England go on tour, and their league will leave a gap in the fixtures so they do not miss any games.

[dalglish]

I have seen all previous posts and the most outstanding point is that all of these posts are from members of the forum that don't have anything to do with the ELA, or teams that would most likely be in contention. The event unfortunately does not have any credibility, you only have to look at this years event, 4 teams does not represent a european championship, sorry if this offends but the forum cannot dictate. If this event is sponsored by the various leagues going forward it may take off, otherwise it is just another event organised by the clubs, Bath 8's Stockport easter festival, or Blues Fest. who cares who wins, do the winners gain any kudos- No is the answer.

If you want an international event it needs to be organised by the governing bodies and funded accordingly.

i have an idea, let's arrange a world club championship in May, if the best teams dont turn up we can open it to everyone else.

The question surely is why the top teams aren't interested.

Mersey, Cheadle or Stockport would be the top 3 teams in europe without question, they perform year in year out and have been the most consistent for many years, the odd team may come good but as a consistent force only 3 teams spring to mind, and before you rise to the bait, please do not bring Durham into the equation, I am only speaking about clubs with a true history of developing their own players.
I stand to be corrected,

[young_trig]

I have seen all previous posts and the most outstanding point is that all of these posts are from members of the forum that don't have anything to do with the ELA, or teams that would most likely be in contention. The event unfortunately does not have any credibility, you only have to look at this years event, 4 teams does not represent a european championship, sorry if this offends but the forum cannot dictate. If this event is sponsored by the various leagues going forward it may take off, otherwise it is just another event organised by the clubs, Bath 8's Stockport easter festival, or Blues Fest. who cares who wins, do the winners gain any kudos- No is the answer.

If you want an international event it needs to be organised by the governing bodies and funded accordingly.

i have an idea, let's arrange a world club championship in May, if the best teams dont turn up we can open it to everyone else.

The question surely is why the top teams aren't interested.

Mersey, Cheadle or Stockport would be the top 3 teams in europe without question, they perform year in year out and have been the most consistent for many years, the odd team may come good but as a consistent force only 3 teams spring to mind, and before you rise to the bait, please do not bring Durham into the equation, I am only speaking about clubs with a true history of developing their own players.
I stand to be corrected,

Without question? What a ridiculous statement. I'd have been fine had you used the words "in my opinion", but you didn't. Until the clubs you have listed take on the other teams in Europe then it can be questioned. They have to prove they are best in Europe before they can say unquestionably that they are the best in Europe. I also don't understand your point about true history. History has nothing to do with unless your debating "who is the best team over the last 20 years....", but we're not. We're debating who is the best team in Europe right now! And that team might well be Durham, or it could be Stockport, or it could be someone from Europe. We will never know without question until they all come up against each other!You are starting to sound a bit like Rafa Benitez. FACT!

In my opinion I think that Stockport are probably the best team in Europe, its a shame they couldn't enter a team in the ECCs. However, I wouldn't really want to see the ELA throwing too much money at it. We already have a national squad going underfunded, I wouldn't want to see club teams getting any extra money for international tournaments! Whilst this is an amateur sport, I think unfortunately that the commitment needs to lie with the clubs and players. Perhaps with enough warning and well chosen venues, we can slowly start to bring the costs down and make it easier for all involved to participate!

On another note, I see you criticised yet again that everyone on the forum is not from one of the big 3 clubs. They can't help where they come from! You seem to be here from time to time. Any chance you could start giving us a few updates regarding the standard you are witnessing in Prem 1. A few match reports would be really appreciated by people here on the forum!

Trig

[Old Goalie]

"Dalglish"

I am working on this on behalf of the Swedish lacrosse federation,
And i am establishing contact with every lacrosse governing bodies in europe to present a proposal to the ELF that everybody could stand behind.
The forum is a just one way to share ideas and problems that will occur.
The Tournement is sanctioned by the ELF therefore legitimate.
But we need as many governing bodies on this train as possible aswell.
I would say that jizni mesto and Farsta are among the top ten clubs in europe.
Yes they would loose against stockport and a few moore but after thouse top teams it is getting tighter.
Have you seen farsta, jizni play?
But that is not the point.
The point is that you have to start somewere.
You don't know how the lax map looks like in 10 years.
And where is the national champions going to measure the strength ?
Party tournements like berlin open is not the right way to go so you need complement to thouse tournements.
Why some clubs don't turn up.
It is pretty easy to answer in some cases, Money! And pride! it seems to be some communication problems in germany and holland so there are some problems to solve.
But one thing is for shure the tournement has to be played every year so it can develop and get the respect it deserves.

Regards

[UKLaxfan]

That is an interesting philosophy

so the only people who can contribute to the debate are ELA Staff and members of the Big 3 Clubs

Everyone else can be ignored

So why aren't Stockport supporting this ELF ratified event?

Here's an idea, why not attend the event once and prove you are the best team in Europe, then as Champions host the event until some team can beat you?

It will become the European Club Championship at Cale Green, you could even change the sign on the shed to "Home of the European Champions" or "Greatest Lacrosse Club in Europe"

As we know nothing ever changes in sport, that's why Liverpool FC have been Premiership & European Cup Winners for the last 20 years

[jivingjohn]

For me, it seems like Farsta have the right attitude to initiating this event.

* Reaching out to each community to try and find a time when the eventual champions would be available to play.
* Asking each community what would happen if their champions didn't want to compete.

I don't know who would be national champions this year, but I'd like to think that they would consider taking their title on the road to say that they won the European championship for England.

The comment about the championship not meaning anything seems a little weird to me. There aren't many places that winning something in lacrosse means something, but the one place it does mean something is within the lacrosse community.

To me it seems the idea of this tournament is to increase the awareness one community has of other communities, and give more meaning to playing lacrosse at a high standard, i.e. winning a national league and gaining Europe-wide recognition for your achievement.

Just my thoughts anyway...

[Blind Zebra]

It’s great that Stockholm is taking an early initiative to get input for next year. Organising a European Club Championship is fraught with problems.

However, the ELF needs to co-ordinate this better and set up a structure to assist the host club to organise the event.

To me it would be better if the European leagues that are interested each enter the competition co-ordinated by the ELF and with the ELF set the basic administration in place. Then by an agreed date each league’s nominee is notified to the organiser.

In short
- a clear ELF direction on structure
- entries from the national leagues.

I can’t believe that other sports run a European Cup with no active support from the sport’s governing bodies.

ELF, and for England NEMLA and SEMLA, need to get involved.

BeeZee.

[Fat bastard]

Blind zebra!
That was what old goalie wrote.
But if the clubs not take the initiative and present a proposal nothing will happen.
Keep up the good work old goalie and if you get the other goverments on the train you are worth all respect and i will For sure buy you Several beers.

Cheers

[dalglish]

young_trig wrote

"Without question? What a ridiculous statement. I'd have been fine had you used the words "in my opinion", but you didn't. Until the clubs you have listed take on the other teams in Europe then it can be questioned. They have to prove they are best in Europe before they can say unquestionably that they are the best in Europe. I also don't understand your point about true history. History has nothing to do with unless your debating "who is the best team over the last 20 years....", but we're not. We're debating who is the best team in Europe right now! And that team might well be Durham, or it could be Stockport, or it could be someone from Europe. We will never know without question until they all come up against each other!You are starting to sound a bit like Rafa Benitez. FACT!

In my opinion I think that Stockport are probably the best team in Europe, its a shame they couldn't enter a team in the ECCs. However, I wouldn't really want to see the ELA throwing too much money at it. We already have a national squad going underfunded, I wouldn't want to see club teams getting any extra money for international tournaments! Whilst this is an amateur sport, I think unfortunately that the commitment needs to lie with the clubs and players. Perhaps with enough warning and well chosen venues, we can slowly start to bring the costs down and make it easier for all involved to participate!

On another note, I see you criticised yet again that everyone on the forum is not from one of the big 3 clubs. They can't help where they come from! You seem to be here from time to time. Any chance you could start giving us a few updates regarding the standard you are witnessing in Prem 1. A few match reports would be really appreciated by people here on the forum!"


[/color]

I did not say that everyone on the forum is not from one of the 3 big clubs.

in answer to UK Laxfan, who sounds like a "bitter blue" Stockport played last year in the event organised at wilmslow and won the event, the fact that he cant remember answers my question as to who cares.

How many people on the forum went to watch that event.

Farsta won the trophy from 4 teams, they took the trouble to turn up. This does not mean they are the best team in europe.(in my humble opinion)

Old Goalie, no I haven't seen Farsta play but fair play to them in winning the tournament.
If there is to be a proper championship each year ways need to be found to encourage the "top" clubs to turn up, I do not believe it is all down to finances. Most players work and have other commitments, may be it will help if the dates are in the calendar well in advance and the work being done in Sweden can only help the clubs in question.

[Likkedeeler #27]

Hello.

As part of my role with the ELF I have taken on the task of supporting the organisation of the ECC2012 next year.

Farsta has been contacted by me today and we are looking to establish a functioning rapport over the next few days. We will then proceed to do our best and deliver an improved event, including:
- more information out earlier, in particular on timing and (detailed) venue
- early and clear communication on costings (in as much as connected with the tournament)
- consultation on feasiblity of timing and cost of participation

This year's event did not deliver as much as it could have and this is addressed actively. So please bear with us and check the ELF webpage and facebook page for updates in this matter.

In case of any questions, please e-mail me (coaching-at-europeanlacrosse.org)

Kind regards

Henning

[Uggy21]

Hi there,

Scotland
The Scottish League starts the first weekend in October. We'd only be looking to send one team.

England
I don't speak on behalf of England, but... I would strongly recommend that they be offered two places - one for the Champions of their Southern Region, one for the Champions of their Northern Region.

Rob

just for completeness, dont forget the Welsh! (In my opinion)
They would be looking for a spot too, I would imagine.(In my opinion)

For note, this has kind of got off the essence of the topic.(In my opinion)
Its not really meant to be a debate on who we think is the best club in Europe, its how can we get this tournament up and running annually.(In my opinion)

Comments about how "Big/top clubs" dont see this as competition is ludicrous!(In my opinion)
History book/ records will show would was crowned european club champions. FACT. They wont say, team x won in 2012 but only because team y didnt show.(In my opinion)

The more support we can give to help the organisation of this the better(In my opinion).

So good luck! (In my opinion)

[S_24_LAX]

Uggy

Thw welsh don't have a league of thier own (yet). But if Harlequins earn thier spot in the Southern comp[etition as Champions I would support them.

I think a lot of people are missing out on Blind Zebras comment that the ELF should take the helm and responsibility for organising this event and working closely with all the national bodies to ensure maximu7m participation.

It looks like Henning is now involved in this let's hope he gets the support he requires.

Fat goalie your doing the right thing to start working on the event early and i wish you luck - support them and Ken Gallucios dream may come true.

[mandy]

Uggy

Thw welsh don't have a league of thier own (yet). But if Harlequins earn thier spot in the Southern comp[etition as Champions I would support them.

Actually Ian there is a Welsh league now (& there is a trophy in our clubhouse to prove it)

As there aren't many teams, and to avoid clashes with Saturday games it is played on a handful of Sundays throughout the year. It may not be a massive surprise to learn that Quins have won it for the two years that it has run so far. In fact just last Sunday we played against Cardiff Uni in the Welsh league

[Likkedeeler #27]

This is to inform you guys that the ECC12 tender process is about to begin. Should your club be interested, please contact Gordon (secretary at europeanlacrosse.org) for details.

Please note that the official process does not include continuous updates through the variety of forums and that, should you have any questions, Gordon is the best person to talk to.

Yours in Lacrosse

Henning

[Old Goalie]

This is to inform you guys that the ECC12 tender process is about to begin. Should your club be interested, please contact Gordon (secretary at europeanlacrosse.org) for details.

Please note that the official process does not include continuous updates through the variety of forums and that, should you have any questions, Gordon is the best person to talk to.

Yours in Lacrosse

Henning

This is going to be intresting, i have mailed Gordon and others at the ELF and i have not heard a word from him or anybody else from the ELF for that matter. You are the only one that have responded.
In some way.
Sweden has been around since the ELF was Starting up and if we cant get in touch with anybody from the ELF it's making me curios why are we a member of the ELF ?