ProLaxShop

European Club Championship 2011

Any and all tournaments, talk about them in here

Moderator: Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting on the forum please ensure you read the Board Wide Rules
User avatar
Blind Zebra
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:29 pm
gender: Male
Location: Up with play.

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Blind Zebra Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:42 am

I've edited this post as it seems the information provided by the ELF does not reflect the referees' understanding of the position. So I'll find out what's afoot and post a post.

At least we now have an open debate.

Perhaps the ELF, or the organiser, could publish the details of how the Championshipis funded.

BeeZee.
In glorious Black & White at a pitch near you.
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:30 pm

what evererybody have to take in consideration is that every country has different season, Sweden, Finland still have snow in april and spain has 25 celsius.
So the decision of tournement date should be that the same week every year is the champions cup tournement.
some directions have to come from ELF but as soon the decision which club then the responsibility goes over to the club.
and as i wrote before the club need a year to prepare and establish contact with each champion club.
but ELF still has to do some marketing to hype the tournement up.

what happens now is that several clubs have payed some large amount of money Madrid (Spain) ,Farsta (Sweden) to face other champions and who are they gone play against? they may not participate for several years after this.

And maybe you could also have the ladies champions cup att the same time and place. (so you could have a party after the tournement :-)

ELF do have a responsibility in this matter.

cheers
le grand papa
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby le grand papa Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:43 pm

This is an ELF sponsored tournament that was originally driven by Ken Galluccio on their behalf.

The format Ken introduced in 2008 ie league champions invited only with shortened round robin games on the Friday night/Saturday & full length games as Finals on the Sunday was continued in 2010 when Wilmslow hosted the tournament. Nobody else was prepared to host the tournament having not been played in 2009 after Ken's untimely death.

The ELF issued a formal tournament invitation to all member countries on the 21st July 2011 but with no cost information.

Having organised this event at Wilmslow one of the biggest costs was paying for the 3 travelling European referees. Cheap flights, budget hotels & food & drink at the tournament. The Northern refs helped with hosting travelling UK refs from down south, ferried the EU refs around in their own cars & tried to mitigate the cost as far as poss. There were other costs incurred - astro & pitch hire & marking, team travel, first aid cover, medals, refreshments as UK hosts to the travelling teams with a welcome party on the Friday night. Our tournament fee was £500 per team & that just about covered the costs. As a club we made money from running a kitchen/tuck shop & the holding club made money from bar sales. It was hard work & we earned every penny.

It was a very enjoyable event appreciated by all attendees I believe.

What do we do to continue to make this event the prestigous tournament Ken envisaged & teams want to participate in? Yes it is elite & should only be open to the best in each EU league. You do not have to get drunk to enjoy lacrosse at the highest club level

le grand papa
Luddites of the world unite - again!
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:19 am

Well first of all: ELF needs to be quicker in there decisions.
Le grand papa says that a message went out the 21 of july.
I know for a fact that John S in sweden sent ELF a mail in this matter in March and the decision (if my information is correct) was taken in may. How can it be a delay of several months?

Nr 1: Information! Let the clubs get the info in time.
Nr 2 if possible let the organizing team know that that they are going to organize the tournement 18-24 months in Advance then the can prepare and change contacts and experiences with previos arrangements.
Nr 3 if possible put the ladies and the mens tournement at the same time and place.
Nr 4 decide that for example every year last weekend of september is the tournement date ( then everybody knows).
Nr 5 ELF have to do more when it comes marketing this tournement.
Nr 6 someone from ELF needs to open and close the tournement. maybe there could be an ELF member meeting each year att this tournement.
Nr 7 tournement fee: each arranging club are allowed to make money but not on the tournement fee( wilmslov perfect example)
Nr 8 ELF have put some pressure on nations like germany to participate.
It's ridicculus that tournement like this is in germany and they don't send a team i think they should be a shamed of them self.
Nr 9 referees what standard do we want a british non contact or more of a checz-us contact sport.
Nr 10 a responsible for referee for each tournement so the club gets a contact to solve practical problems with before the tournement.
This is just a few things, and there are some initial work for the ELF but not much we just need to get the info with 100mbit/s not 56,6mbit/s.
Please fill in if you think i'm wrong.
I
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:29 am

About nr 9 i do not say that brittish-German referees are better or worse than chez-us i just say that the style is a bit different therefor choose a head referee and let him if poosible help out picking the referee team.
Just like the players we do want the referees to fel that this i the tournement to attend.


Cheers
User avatar
Blind Zebra
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:29 pm
gender: Male
Location: Up with play.

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Blind Zebra Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:17 pm

As promised.

I have taken advice from the ELF, from the tournament organiser, and others involved.

As I understand it, the ELF Referees Secretary wanted the clubs involved to fund:
• Hotel expenses for referees and assessors.
• Full travel expenses for referees and assessors, including for those travelling from the US and Canada.
• A minibus and driver hired for two days for the exclusive use of the referees and assessors.
• Officials to be selected by the ELF from a broad geographic background rather than utilising local refereeing resources.

The organiser has now agreed to provide:
• Hotel expenses for referees.
• Travel expenses limited to Euro100.
• A minibus and driver hired for two days for the exclusive use of the referees.
• Referees as selected by the ELF.
• No assessors unless funded by the ELF.

Quite properly, no one from the ELA, or their referees, has been involved in this debate.

From my discussions with my English colleagues the feeling is that this tournament needs support to get off the ground and those who officiate should only receive reasonable expenses.

I still believe that the ELF’s demands were wholly inappropriate for this tournament and that the resolution reached although a great improvement is still , as a whole, more gold plated than we need.

BeeZee.
In glorious Black & White at a pitch near you.
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:39 pm

Any news on Heaton Mercy's participation??
le grand papa
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby le grand papa Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:58 am

I understand that Heaton Mersey have declined the invitation as they feel they were given inadequate notice to attend

Amazing how clubs like Madrid that have been around for 5 minutes can attend again with no real hope of winning the tournament. 2 of our oldest & biggest clubs in the North have had to decline the invitation. The powers that be really must get a grip on this tournament & decide how to attract the fullest possible entrants.

What a pity for North of England Lacrosse we will have no representative to defend the title this year. We've won it the only 2 times it's been played for.

Re BeeZee's comments above - why would you want N American referees attending an ELF tournament - let alone expecting the participating teams to pay for their flights etc. Ditto for assessors. Surely the local German referees can ferry the visiting referees around - why do they need a minibus & driver for 2 days - absolute nonsense! When we were in Hamburg the club actually had a liveried van & 2 hired minibuses that ferried everybody (inc refs) around from airport/hotel/game/etc.

le grand papa
Luddites of the world unite - again!
User avatar
Blind Zebra
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:29 pm
gender: Male
Location: Up with play.

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Blind Zebra Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:17 pm

Papa. I'm told because the German Association's Lax Regulations require it! Seems barmy to me! And to be fair I think the host club is doubtful of the wisdom and no one is actually planning to come from North America.

It's the ELF's call.

BeeZee.
In glorious Black & White at a pitch near you.
le grand papa
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby le grand papa Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:15 pm

Can anyone actually confirm who is competing in this tournament? I understand there are 6 entrants.

We had 8 last year at Wilmslow (but 5 of them were from the UK)

le grand papa
Luddites of the world unite - again!
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:04 pm

1)Jizni Mesto
2)FoC
3)Madrid Lacrosse
4)Walcountian Blues
5)Dublin University

6)Hamburg (not sure)

Stockport (declined)
Heaton Mercy (declined)
Wilmslow (declined)

But i must say that it is very strange that neither Germany or netherlands is sending their champions. i mean a 3 hour ride with a car should not be to difficult.

But i do think this tournement can develop to the tournement it deserves but the tournement needs a leader that can develop it to a format that fits most of europe.

Cheers
le grand papa
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby le grand papa Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:53 am

Fat b*****d wrote:1)Jizni Mesto
2)FoC
3)Madrid Lacrosse
4)Walcountian Blues
5)Dublin University

6)Hamburg (not sure)

Stockport (declined)
Heaton Mercy (declined)
Wilmslow (declined)

But i must say that it is very strange that neither Germany or netherlands is sending their champions. i mean a 3 hour ride with a car should not be to difficult.

But i do think this tournement can develop to the tournement it deserves but the tournement needs a leader that can develop it to a format that fits most of europe.

Cheers


Correction - Wilmslow did not qualify this year so were not eligible to attend. "Declined" is totally incorrect

Are you sure Hamburg are "not sure" about attending a tournament they are actually hosting??

le grand papa
Luddites of the world unite - again!
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:29 am

Yes i also belive that hamburg are going to play the tournement but i don't have it confirmed that's why i didn't put them on list.

sorry for the mistake about wilmslow ("Scotland did not decide yet and wilmslow England is thinking about it")is what i got on mail and maybe my reliable source wasn't so reliable after all...
User avatar
webby
Posts: 1222
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:54 pm
gender: Male
Location: Newcastle

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby webby Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:23 pm

Fat b*****d wrote:1)Jizni Mesto
2)FoC
3)Madrid Lacrosse
4)Walcountian Blues
5)Dublin University


From that list, Blues or JM to win. Two very different styles, with Blues playing out and out field, with JM being a predominantly box team.
Sheffield University 2005-2008
Northumbria University 2008-2011
Newcastle upon Tyne 2008-Present
http://www.nutlax.com
User avatar
UKLacrosse
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:44 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby UKLacrosse Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:00 pm

Out of interest how is the eligibility of players monitored or policed in such a prestigious event?
Our take on this is that Czech teams invariably pool players during tournaments e.g. at the Berlin Open the UKLacrosse team once played against Radotin, then a combined Radotin/ Mesto (semi) and then Radotin/ Mesto/ Malesice (final)!
Warrior Lacrosse Equipment & Apparel
Brine Lacrosse Equipment & Apparel
www.uklacrosse.com
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:17 pm

webby wrote:
Fat b*****d wrote:1)Jizni Mesto
2)FoC
3)Madrid Lacrosse
4)Walcountian Blues
5)Dublin University


From that list, Blues or JM to win. Two very different styles, with Blues playing out and out field, with JM being a predominantly box team.


Well I'm not so sure, FoC is definitely an outsider. I've seen them a few times in berlin. and it is definitely not a team to underestimate. I saw them beat the crap out Jizni Mesto a few years a go.
and this year they had the lead with 6-0 aginst Nick Andertons team Nando, then Nando called in some of the best players in the tournement (not a nice move...) and turned the game to a win with 6-7.
but i also noticed that alot of them were pretty old i think atleast half the team is 35-40 years old.
So i do agree that in the end it should end up with a final betwen Blues and Mesto.

UKLacrosse wrote:Out of interest how is the eligibility of players monitored or policed in such a prestigious event?
Our take on this is that Czech teams invariably pool players during tournaments e.g. at the Berlin Open the UKLacrosse team once played against Radotin, then a combined Radotin/ Mesto (semi) and then Radotin/ Mesto/ Malesice (final)!


As far as i have been informed, this is a club tournement therefore only club players are allowed.
if the club have non eligible players they have to ask the tournement Committee for permission.
Last edited by Fat bastard on Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
UKLacrosse
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:44 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby UKLacrosse Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:55 pm

Fat b*****d wrote:As far as i have been informed, this is a club tournement therefore only club players are allowed.
if the club have non eligible players they have to ask the tournement Committee for permission.


That suggests the tournament committee might consider allowing it!
If there is no rule or policing of the eligibility of players then it hardly gives any credibility to the title of European
Club Champion.
Warrior Lacrosse Equipment & Apparel

Brine Lacrosse Equipment & Apparel

www.uklacrosse.com
User avatar
webby
Posts: 1222
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:54 pm
gender: Male
Location: Newcastle

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby webby Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:07 pm

Fat b*****d wrote:and this year they had the lead with 6-0 aginst Ben Mcallisters team Nando, then Nando called in some of the best players in the tournement (not a nice move...) and turned the game to a win with 6-7.


Welcome to tournament lacrosse!
Sheffield University 2005-2008
Northumbria University 2008-2011
Newcastle upon Tyne 2008-Present
http://www.nutlax.com
le grand papa
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:11 pm
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby le grand papa Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:51 am

UKLacrosse wrote:
Fat b*****d wrote:As far as i have been informed, this is a club tournement therefore only club players are allowed.
if the club have non eligible players they have to ask the tournement Committee for permission.


That suggests the tournament committee might consider allowing it!
If there is no rule or policing of the eligibility of players then it hardly gives any credibility to the title of European
Club Champion.


When Wilmslow hosted the tournament I was the tournament committee! The rules I put out for the tournament in advance requested all teams to register their players in advance & only use bona fide club players ie a club team not an "all star" team. Agreed anything less defeats the object & demeans the whole championship concept. Accepted that it relies on the honesty & sportsmanship of the entrants as there is no way to actually check the eligibility of all the players.

le grand papa
Luddites of the world unite - again!
User avatar
Fat bastard
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 am
gender: Male

Re: European Club Championship 2011

Postby Fat bastard Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:34 am

webby wrote:
Fat b*****d wrote:and this year they had the lead with 6-0 aginst Ben Mcallisters team Nando, then Nando called in some of the best players in the tournement (not a nice move...) and turned the game to a win with 6-7.


Welcome to tournament lacrosse!


now this maybe is a bit of topic but tournement lacrosse or not, at least you could say that it is a bit unsportsmanlike to call in players during the game. before sure, if you are not enough players no problem.


uk lacrosse wrote:That suggests the tournament committee might consider allowing it!
If there is no rule or policing of the eligibility of players then it hardly gives any credibility to the title of European
Club Champion.



it is perhaps a little hard to judge the tournament so soon, it is still far from fully developed. it will be written rules and policies. But it's not like there are a lot of employees in the ELF office, who can take care of this in a flash. as they say Rome was not built in a day.
we have to give it time to develop.

Return to “Tournaments”

Monster Mesh

Monster Mesh

Login · Register