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Open Trials for England U19 women

Postby oldman Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:50 am

The New England U19 women's Coach, Nicky Budd, has introduced an open trialling system for the U19 squad. This is an exciting time for the U19s, giving all girls the opportunity to trial for the national team regardless of if they have been previously involved in the CENTEX program.

Applications need to be submitted by the 6th of August.

Forms & letter can be found here:
Application form http://www.kent-lacrosse.org.uk/trials/open_triallists_application_form.doc
U19 trials flyer http://www.kent-lacrosse.org.uk/trials/U19_England_Womens_Open_trial_flyer.docx
U19s trials flyer http://kent-lacrosse.org.uk/trials/U19_England_Womens_Open_trial_letter.docx
Last edited by oldman on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby UKLaxfan Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:24 am

All Representative Trials should be
- Open
- Transparent
- Inclusive
- FREE

it beggars belief some of the "ELITE" perspectives on the game in this Country

It wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else in the World

CENTEX and Academies are A Pathway they should NOT BE THE ONLY PATHWAY to representative lacrosse

As long as this policy is maintained England and English Lacrosse will not reach it's potential in performing at the International Level
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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby oldman Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:44 am

The whole point is just that...it is changing..for the better IMHO. The women's U19s now have completely open trials, and I think that will permeate through the women's elite system in the future. It will, however, take a bit of time to unwind the existing system.

So it would be nice to hear a well done to the ELA for moving things on.
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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby the pom Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:37 pm

In my understanding and this is probably wrong and is only an opinion and I do not have all the facts but it appears to me that

all the ela has done is move it from a private program to a program they run and charge for.

This year it may be open but once the ela academies are up and running in full swing

there will be no way in to any national side apart from via the ELA run academies

on paper yes

but in reality the kids on the academes will be pre trained for the selection know the selection criteria and be known by the sectors

I do not have a problem with this just as long as it does not pretend to be anything else
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby oldman Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:51 pm

the pom wrote:This year it may be open but once the ela academies are up and running in full swing

there will be no way in to any national side apart from via the ELA run academies

on paper yes

but in reality the kids on the academes will be pre trained for the selection know the selection criteria and be known by the sectors


My understanding, though I could be wrong too, is that there will always be open trials. As far as the academies are concerned surely any sport hoping to do well runs a development route for talented youngsters. I don't see that there is a problem with the academies and the open trials existing side by side.

The whole point of open trials is that everyone knows the selection criteria, if they are in some way secret then it really isn't an open trial. Again my understanding is that everything will be transparent, selection criteria will be available to all. As to your point about the coaches knowing academy players, it is unavoidable, but I return to my original argument, does that mean we should not have an academy process?
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Re: Open Trials for England U19 women

Postby chippie Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:09 pm

There are still many sports out there that are far bigger than lacrosse such as netball, that have a selection pathway to national squads and run invitational trials...their reasons...

The right development programmes and correct level of training to challenge athletes - all young people follow the same pattern of growth from infancy through to adulthood, but there are significant individual differences in both the timing and magnitude of the changes that take place. Delivery of the appropriate training (based upon the Netball Excel Guidelines) and implementation of flexible age banding will ensure optimum individual athlete performance.

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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby the pom Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:28 pm

oldman wrote:
the pom wrote:This year it may be open but once the ela academies are up and running in full swing

there will be no way in to any national side apart from via the ELA run academies

on paper yes

but in reality the kids on the academes will be pre trained for the selection know the selection criteria and be known by the sectors


My understanding, though I could be wrong too, is that there will always be open trials. As far as the academies are concerned surely any sport hoping to do well runs a development route for talented youngsters. I don't see that there is a problem with the academies and the open trials existing side by side.

The whole point of open trials is that everyone knows the selection criteria, if they are in some way secret then it really isn't an open trial. Again my understanding is that everything will be transparent, selection criteria will be available to all. As to your point about the coaches knowing academy players, it is unavoidable, but I return to my original argument, does that mean we should not have an academy process?



No as I said I have no issue with this the academy route. is the correct way to go as long as it is cheap and open to all regions
but I would not believe that for one second the only realistic way unless you are an overseas player to get on an ELA England team is through an ELA academy with ELA coaches that provides a revenue stream for the ELA.

Have the ELA given out the current selection criteria has it been published? How far ahead will this be published so player can independently train to meet the requirements
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby oldman Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:01 pm

the pom wrote:No as I said I have no issue with this the academy route. is the correct way to go as long as it is cheap and open to all regions
but I would not believe that for one second the only realistic way unless you are an overseas player to get on an ELA England team is through an ELA academy with ELA coaches that provides a revenue stream for the ELA.

Have the ELA given out the current selection criteria has it been published? How far ahead will this be published so player can independently train to meet the requirements


Sorry Pom I'm not sure what you are saying in your first para.
You are happy with the academy as long as it is cheap and open to all regions - which the new system is.
You are suggesting that, despite the open trials, there is no other realistic way into the English women's team other than through the academies? - Under the new system I think that is a misconception. My reading of it is that at any open trials a girl can be spotted as a talent and invited to be part of the England set up. In particular this would be a huge boost to athletes who take up lacrosse late - at university for instance ...Good for the athletes, good for the England team.

Turning to the final paragraph, as I'm sure you are aware the ELA is in the process of rolling out it's new elite programme part of which will be the selection criteria. Again, my understanding only, but that will be published once it is all signed off. Once it is published it will remain the criteria until the coaches choose to change/update it. So independent candidates will be able to train for as long as they wish matching themselves against those criteria.

The move to an open trials system for the U19 girls is just the first part of the elite programme overhaul. Clearly much needed and long awaited, but back to my original sentiment about it a good move in the right direction...in my opinion at least. I think it is worth seeing how the rest pans out before saying it won't work.
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Re: Open Trials for England U19 women

Postby UKLaxfan Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:19 pm

The Question of exactly what the selection criteria will be and who will know what the criteria is, was asked at the Volunteers Conference repeatedly

No answer was forth coming as to what the criteria will be or when or if it will be released to all Coaches & Players.

This is vital IMHO for the validity of Open Trials

Everyone should know on what criteria their performance will be measured

If not

it is the equivalent of taking an exam where only some of the Candidates know what the syllabus is, which would be absurd

Open Trials for the Women's U19s is a tremendous step in the right direction and something that should be supported
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Re: Open Trials for England U19 women

Postby UKLacrosse Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:07 am

So who is establishing the criteria/ protocols for selection?
Would that be the Head Coach .... or would it be the National Squads Committee, or maybe the Elite Performance Director?
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Re: Open Trials for England U19 women

Postby oldman Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:52 am

UKLaxfan wrote:The Question of exactly what the selection criteria will be and who will know what the criteria is, was asked at the Volunteers Conference repeatedly

No answer was forth coming as to what the criteria will be or when or if it will be released to all Coaches & Players.

This is vital IMHO for the validity of Open Trials

Everyone should know on what criteria their performance will be measured


Again my understanding is that:
1. No definite answer about, what the criteria are or when they will be released to coaches was given, as the process of developing the new elite performance committee and all its responsibilities was still in progress. It seems entirely reasonable to have everything agreed before trying to roll it out.

2. The criteria once they have been developed will be released to anyone who has an interest. Why would anyone develop criteria for selection and then keep them secret?
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Re: Open Trials for England U19

Postby the pom Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:02 am

oldman wrote:
the pom wrote:No as I said I have no issue with this the academy route. is the correct way to go as long as it is cheap and open to all regions
but I would not believe that for one second the only realistic way unless you are an overseas player to get on an ELA England team is through an ELA academy with ELA coaches that provides a revenue stream for the ELA.

Have the ELA given out the current selection criteria has it been published? How far ahead will this be published so player can independently train to meet the requirements


Sorry Pom I'm not sure what you are saying in your first para.
You are happy with the academy as long as it is cheap and open to all regions - which the new system is.
You are suggesting that, despite the open trials, there is no other realistic way into the English women's team other than through the academies? - Under the new system I think that is a misconception. My reading of it is that at any open trials a girl can be spotted as a talent and invited to be part of the England set up. In particular this would be a huge boost to athletes who take up lacrosse late - at university for instance ...Good for the athletes, good for the England team.

Turning to the final paragraph, as I'm sure you are aware the ELA is in the process of rolling out it's new elite programme part of which will be the selection criteria. Again, my understanding only, but that will be published once it is all signed off. Once it is published it will remain the criteria until the coaches choose to change/update it. So independent candidates will be able to train for as long as they wish matching themselves against those criteria.

The move to an open trials system for the U19 girls is just the first part of the elite programme overhaul. Clearly much needed and long awaited, but back to my original sentiment about it a good move in the right direction...in my opinion at least. I think it is worth seeing how the rest pans out before saying it won't work.



There is never going to be an fair system and I think this is probably the best way to go

The only fair system would be to have no academies and everyone just turns up to the trail unknown and is picked on merit on the day.

I agree this is not the best system as with the academies young players are coached and get to train with other gifted player there for enhancing their ability

But this leave the situation that players going to the academies have a much higher chance of being picked as they know the secret selection criteria they are known by the other player coaches selectors.

So I think this will lessen the chances of players who take up the sport late getting on england as they will not already be in the Fold or on the outside ho ever you want to put it.

So if you are a young player the only sensible option if you want to play for England is to go to the ELa Academies(or a high school in the states).
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012

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