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Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

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Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Yes
9
64%
No
4
29%
Same as ever
1
7%
 
Total votes: 14
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UKLaxfan
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Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:29 pm

England U19s lost to Japan today 13-10

this after losing to a very young Australian team 15-10 yesterday

Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

And if yes, why do you think it is?
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby rpowell Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:05 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:England U19s lost to Japan today 13-10
this after losing to a very young Australian team 15-10 yesterday
Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?
And if yes, why do you think it is?

How about "probably not"...
1. We'll know more after Japan play Canada on Monday. Could just be Japan have got better, while the rest of the world stays about the same.
2. Re. the young Aussies - whatever happenened to the old saying "if you're good enough, you're old enough"?
3. I suspect that the variance in team performance at Under 19 level is greater that that at Senior level. Don't panic unless and until there are issues at the Worlds in Canada.
4. And finally, "no, it isn't in decline. But will be when they get rid of Territorials" :)
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:14 pm

USA just beat Canada 13-6

I would hazard a guess that Canada will be too strong for England tomorrow

IMO the biggest problem is Coaching at Junior level for girls, and the lack of visionary coaching at Centex and Senior Teams.

England are very one dimensional to watch in competition, they are fantastic at all the peripheral things surrounding the game, the warm-ups and synchronized stretches etc but don't master the techniques to actually play the game.

I have thought this for a number of years but it seems to be getting worse.

I attended a Women's Lacrosse Coaching Convention where Christa & Stephy Samaras were guests along side Denise Wescott (Ex Delaware Head Coach) these three people have a vast experience and knowledge of the game and were available for open questions at the end of the convention. All the women present were more interested in arguing about the change in date for National Schools Competition rather than gaining ant insight to the developments in the game and how to teach them.

The success of the young Aussies and especially those from Footscray LC, Victoria (Aus) says a lot more about the game than anything else, these Aussie girls haven't succeeded because they had all the advantages of going to a Top High School or Div 1 College, they have succeeded thru hard work and Good Coaching.

Hannah Neilsen won a Gold Medal in the World Cup before stepping foot on the Northwestern campus

With the amount of schools playing girls lacrosse and the time, effort and resources dedicated to Centex these results are very disappointing.

Perhaps it should be called CENTOK or CENTMED for mediocre :(

The English Women's Lacrosse is a shadow of it's former glory and getting worse in relative terms to other Countries

From the last few World Games England look very Vanilla on offense and act as though are running on rails, there is very little individual creativity and flair compared to other Nations.
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby wildcat Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:46 am

Japan vs England was an incredible game of lacrosse. Watching a six foot plus girl playing a four foot something players was very entertaining! It is Japans first ever win in women's lacrosse against a 'top four' team, and their fans were ecstatic....
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:11 am

wildcat wrote:Japan vs England was an incredible game of lacrosse. Watching a six foot plus girl playing a four foot something players was very entertaining! It is Japans first ever win in women's lacrosse against a 'top four' team, and their fans were ecstatic....


Image
Perhaps they should have called a stick check on #21
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby chippie Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:21 am

1) need to change the question....womens lacrosse in the uk vs womens national team!
2) uklaxfan is right, there is a certain flair element missing from the eng teams of late...compare to the us/canadians etc put a player in a pressure situation they will think of a way out, but i think uk (yes uk) teams try and stick to the way they play even when its not working
3) big improvement in the welsh team....they have had some good results against eng in the last year, could see them do well in WC, they will most likeley win their group but will find it difficult in play-in matches
4) uk players are getting recognised....more and more are going over to the us....one eng u19 recently got offered a scholarship to northwestern!
5) other teams are also improving.....japan throw in some crazy moves....they work hard on tactics everyone is in sync....even the us found it hard against the jap zone initially...but as mentioned us players can think on their feet and found a way round it
6) the centex programme is great for eng...get girls in early through a national framework....but what coaching goes on we dont know
7) rpowell: have you read the competitive review....?? do you know why the new system is being introduced to replace territorials?
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:50 pm

England U19s performance so far

vs Australia - Lost 15-10
vs Japan - Lost 13-10
vs Canada - Lost 13-10
vs USA - Lost 16-5

At first glance the results are quite close and they could still win a medal due to format of tournament, they will most likely play Japan in the Quarter-Final on Wednesday 10th August.

But if you look at the stats of the games (first 3 games only available) they have been out matched in all aspects of the game apart from goalkeeping & score.

After 3 games their opponents have won most of criteria:-
Goals 41-30
Assists 17-7
Shots 107-47
Groundballs 63-48
Draw Controls 48-29
Turnovers 49-66
Caused Turnovers 29-20
Fouls 64-77

England have been out shot by more than 2:1 ratio

Shots on Goal:

England 40/47 (85%)
Opponents 73/107 (68%)

Shooting Percentage:
England 30/47 (64%)
Opponents 40/107 (37%)

Save Percentage:
England 33/73 (45%)
Opponents 10/40 (25%)

These figures don't include stats from USA game (L 16-5) which will make them even worse

This could be England's worst International Performance ever at a World's (if it isn't already)

How bad does it have to be before changes are made?
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby davidmcculloch81 Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:19 pm

Can't this debate be had after the tournament?

Come on England and (to a lesser extent) the other home nations.
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby the pom Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:26 am

good call davo.

please save slagging of the coaches till after the games.
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:47 am

davidmcculloch81 wrote:Can't this debate be had after the tournament?

Come on England and (to a lesser extent) the other home nations.


Apathy Rules

After the tournament it will be even lower profile than now.

There will be a review eventually where everyone will be thanked for their efforts and hard work and actual performance will not be discussed.

Men's England 2002
Men's England 2006
Men's England 2010
Women's England 2009

rah rah England
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLacrosse Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:19 am

Review of England's performance at the 2009 Senior World Cup -
http://209.20.80.25/vsite/vfile/page/fi ... ile,00.pdf
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby gazmanofhull Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:02 am

Is that the whole document? or titles of sections of the whole document, because that is just horrific!

That's more a collection of buzz-words and statements than an actual review of the England performance!
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby buckers_the_great Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:45 am

gazmanofhull wrote:Is that the whole document? or titles of sections of the whole document, because that is just horrific!

That's more a collection of buzz-words and statements than an actual review of the England performance!


And don't forget according to the SWOT anaylsis 'it's a man's world!'. How this statement helps anything i'm not sure?
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:21 pm

To be fair that document was the slides from a presentation given by then Head Coach Lois Richardson

We don't know what words went with that or even if they presentation was before or after she resigned from Head Coach.

What I'm discussing is a Performance Review by the ELA

Someone within the ELA must be responsible for the direction the National Squads are going in.

The Women's Performance Director is Anne Smith who is also U19s Head Coach (2003, & 2011)

The Men's Performance Director is Dave Elwood who was also Men's Senior Head Coach (2002, 2006, 2010)

Perhaps there should be a review by people who are not the Head Coach :?
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby the pom Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:17 pm

this would have to be done by an independant to get any useful information.
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby Moaning Git Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:48 pm

At the risk of swimming in waters I know too little about, I am not sure what the question can be answered to be honest as it depends from where you are standing. Do worsening results in World Championships mean that you are in decline or that others are getting better? Is the sport growing in Japan Australia etc as it is in Europe? If so is there anything we can learn from their approach? I really do not know as I have enough problems getting my head around the problems of Men's Lacrosse in England.

What I would like to see is some joined up thinking in terms of the development of the Whole Sport and all its various disciplines within England, rather than what seems an ad hoc somewhat disjointed approach. The ELA could coordinate such an approach but the various interested parties would have to learn to work together and say that they are willing to put aside past differences in order to make any progress. This goes far beyond the coaches involved.
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby stocklax26 Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:32 pm

England beat Japan 20-12..... Well done Girls!!!
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:45 pm

Well Done to England girls beating Japan 20 - 12

In the space of 5 days they turn around a 13-10 loss to a 20-12 Win

Have the girls suddenly become bigger, stronger, faster?

or was the strategy completely wrong in the first game?

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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby Moaning Git Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:04 pm

Maybe they learned through experience!
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Re: Is Women's Lacrosse in Decline in the UK?

Postby UKLaxfan Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:50 pm

England beat Japan 20-12..... Well done Girls!!!


Scotland beat Japan 21-18 ... Congratulations to the Scottish Girls!!!

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