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PaulM
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Re: New rules

Postby PaulM Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:54 pm

robbo wrote:
PaulM wrote:My concerns relate to the restraining line positions at the draw, and is the keeper still constrained to 10 seconds if receiving the ball for a restart from crossing the back line?


Which bit of the draw positioning do you want clarification on? The set up should consist of the two players taking the draw, and four players from each team. All other players must be behind the restrining lines. It does not matter which restraining line they are behind.

And yes, they will still be bound to 10 seconds.


If there is not a clean draw and a re-draw is require do you reset the players around the circle? and also those at the restraing line?
Secondly if a player at the restraining line crosses early does possession transfer to the other team at the centre or position of the foul?
These might be a bit theoretical but trying to anticipate situations before they require on the pitch resolution.
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Postby chippie Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:28 am

Paul,

these are great questions...I didnt even think of those possibilities!!

I will ask the committee....I have also aked to confirm if these rules will be used in BUCS


I'm gonna have a pop at answering them see if I get them correct...

If there is not a clean draw and a re-draw is require do you reset the players around the circle? and also those at the restraing line?

If it is a throw (so the umpire does not know who moved/fouled first) remain where they are when the whistle is blown, but must be 4m away

Secondly if a player at the restraining line crosses early does possession transfer to the other team at the centre or position of the foul?

I initially would say that play starts at the point of the foul, so the restraining line, but even if the player who fouled is moved 4m away then the team that did not foul has been penalised by having to move back if the foul happened on their defensive side, teams could use this as a tactic, but then they could also get green yellows for this... ...so after thinking about it i would say that it would be a free position at the centre circle....

def gonna need 3 umpires for games!!!
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Postby fizz Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:14 pm

Bout time these rules were trialled in the UK. Aus has had the yellow card penalty for years now. Now the rule for the face, as a centre player I welcome this, I saw this rule in practise when home visiting this year and it is a welcome releif.

Now the question lies as when will the league over here take some forward steps and move to 10 aside. This leaves only 2 pairs plus keeper behind the restrainer and 7 v 7 .... less congestion and easier to grow teams.. other added advantages mean you can use the same markings and pitches as mens ... Certainly hasn't done any harm in the countries that already do this!.
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chippie
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Re:

Postby chippie Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:10 am

fizz wrote:Now the question lies as when will the league over here take some forward steps and move to 10 aside. This leaves only 2 pairs plus keeper behind the restrainer and 7 v 7 .... less congestion and easier to grow teams.. other added advantages mean you can use the same markings and pitches as mens ... Certainly hasn't done any harm in the countries that already do this!.


why 10 a side? whats wrong with 12?
with the new rules it will be 7v7...and 2 players is not going to make the biggest of difference in growing teams!

i know the aussie rules are different with no stand rule etc....could you just explain the rule differences pls
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Re: New rules

Postby chippie Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:08 pm

PaulM wrote:
If there is not a clean draw and a re-draw is require do you reset the players around the circle? and also those at the restraing line?
Secondly if a player at the restraining line crosses early does possession transfer to the other team at the centre or position of the foul?
These might be a bit theoretical but trying to anticipate situations before they require on the pitch resolution.


Answers from R&U
At a re-draw, yes the rest of the players are reset outside the circle and behind the restraining line as necessary.

are you talking about on the draw? if yes, then the foul is called only if it affects play. then if it's repeated you can call it, consider green card delay of game, try preventative officiating and have a word. the setup would be spot of the foul. all of the above ertains if we're talking about on the draw.

it seems that not all rules have been fully communicated well enough...
for example...some people are saying that on a yellow, you can be released after a goal, some are saying they have to serve the full 2 minutes
some games are still playing 8v8 some are looking to play 7v7

i still dont get why have make teams play with a player down when you can still have 8v8 on your defensive end and keep 2 above the restrainer?
what happens when there are more than 2 players off?
"Train to win, Play to win" "Shoot first. Ask questions later"

"the way to beat a tight crease is a quick stick"

It's not the team with the best athletes, it's the athlete's with the best team

My views and opinions are my own and do not reflect views or opinions of any other club, organisation, institution.
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wildcat
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Re: New rules

Postby wildcat Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:13 pm

You've done nothing there but confuse me.

Your last sentence
chippie wrote:i still dont get why have make teams play with a player down when you can still have 8v8 on your defensive end and keep 2 above the restrainer?
what happens when there are more than 2 players off?


I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. First it says 8v8. Then you say keep 2 above the restrainer.
Excluding goalies....Is it 7 v 7 at each offensive end with 4 behind the restrainer.
If someone gets sent off isnt it 7 v 6.

I thought the whole point of the player down is getting an advantage after a foul. So (assuming 7v7) It starts of 7v7, then a players gets sent off it 7v6, and then 7v5 then 7v4 - with the offending team in each case having the same number of players behind the restrainer (4).

As for the major foul in the fan. Player fouls, gets sent off. play 7v6. The players gets a free position and scores. So....this sounds like it is still a matter of debate, as to whether the player comes back on? Who to go to guy with the answer??! Piss up...Brewery.....

I want to look like I have a clue (I know, doubtful at the best of times) when I start coaching again in a week! And, are BUSA teams going to be on the same page in a couple of weeks time when the season kicks off?
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Re: New rules

Postby chippie Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:20 pm

wildcat wrote:You've done nothing there but confuse me.


dude, im hearing so many conflicting things!!

but BUCS teams will be getting a detailed version soon!

wildcat wrote:I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. First it says 8v8. Then you say keep 2 above the restrainer.
Excluding goalies....Is it 7 v 7 at each offensive end with 4 behind the restrainer.
If someone gets sent off isnt it 7 v 6.

I thought the whole point of the player down is getting an advantage after a foul. So (assuming 7v7) It starts of 7v7, then a players gets sent off it 7v6, and then 7v5 then 7v4 - with the offending team in each case having the same number of players behind the restrainer (4).

As for the major foul in the fan. Player fouls, gets sent off. play 7v6. The players gets a free position and scores. So....this sounds like it is still a matter of debate, as to whether the player comes back on? Who to go to guy with the answer??! Piss up...Brewery.....

I want to look like I have a clue (I know, doubtful at the best of times) when I start coaching again in a week! And, are BUSA teams going to be on the same page in a couple of weeks time when the season kicks off?


Apparently BUCS will be staying 8v8

I recently was at a game where the opposition said they could play with 8v8 on the defence if they were a player down and keep 2 back! :shock:
but it shouldnt be like that, if you have a player off then you must keep the same numbers above the restainer (3)

Major in the fan...player goes off, no replacement, goal is scored, player comes back on!
agree! not a great rule for womens lax!
"Train to win, Play to win" "Shoot first. Ask questions later"

"the way to beat a tight crease is a quick stick"

It's not the team with the best athletes, it's the athlete's with the best team

My views and opinions are my own and do not reflect views or opinions of any other club, organisation, institution.
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Postby jonfast Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:58 pm

The idea of the send off is solid. If you keep 7on7 or 8on8 even with send off, you still have the full quota of other team's (no-one sent off) players behind restrainer i.e. full defensive unit and one less attacker. Therefore less likely to score on the break, more tiring being a player down. And obviously visa versa on attack. If attack is one up on the break, surely there is more chance to score? That is how I see it anyway.

The send off works in the US, but I'm not sure if it is verbatim the same laws...?

Having watched plenty of 7on7 women's lax in the US I am in favour of bringing it over here. The game is progressing and I think 7on7 makes for a faster, more entertaining game. Just my opinion.

Chippie when will BUCS teams be informed of rules they are playing by do you know?
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Postby chippie Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:13 pm

im still not convinced...
would love to see if there is any research to see what %/number of goals were scored with a player down

i agree...7v7 will be more interesting, there is nowt wrong with 8v8 though...im gutted they changed the restrainer and gk rules!

Dont know....I know they are being written at the moment, so hopefully soon...not long till the season starts!
"Train to win, Play to win" "Shoot first. Ask questions later"

"the way to beat a tight crease is a quick stick"

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Postby robbo Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:39 pm

All games in England will be played 8v8 (we are not trialling 7v7 in England).

A yellow card will mean 2 minutes of man down below the restrainer (ie you still have three back).

The yellow card will be released by a goal by the non offending team.

I will get something put up on the ELA website tomorrow. I will also be sending clarification to BUCS to disseminate to their teams.
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Postby robbo Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:40 pm

All rules will be trialled with the exception of the 7v7, as in above post it will stay 8v8.
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Re: New rules

Postby robbo Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:39 pm

chippie wrote:i still dont get why have make teams play with a player down when you can still have 8v8 on your defensive end and keep 2 above the restrainer?
what happens when there are more than 2 players off?


the penalty is served below the restrainer... so if more than 2 off you would still have to have 3 back but you would have to play a great zone!
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jonfast
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Postby jonfast Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:06 pm

robbo wrote:the penalty is served below the restrainer...


So you play defensively a player down but not attacking with a turnover? I may have confused myself here.
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Re:

Postby robbo Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:42 pm

jonfast wrote:So you play defensively a player down but not attacking with a turnover? I may have confused myself here.


Not quite sure what you mean either! You play a man down in defense and also in attack
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Postby chippie Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:45 pm

Thanks for clearing this up rob!
"Train to win, Play to win" "Shoot first. Ask questions later"

"the way to beat a tight crease is a quick stick"

It's not the team with the best athletes, it's the athlete's with the best team

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Kari Gosnay-Jones
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Postby Kari Gosnay-Jones Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:59 pm

We are playing 7 v 7 in the North at all Levels, seniors thru Juniors.

I believe we may have played it at the county tournament recently too.

It is so much better.

The rest of the country should be given the opportunity to experience this before making a decision.
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Postby fizz Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:12 pm

Yep at the recent county tournament we had, the new rules were played. They were extremely successful in redusing the congestion in the fan.

I am disappointed that this format will not be used at the territorials, as having just spent the weekend at trials playing the 8 v 8 those extra 2 players do make a big difference, much prefer them behind the restrainer. Makes no sense that it is not being trialed.

In reply to an earlier post, last time in Aus we still stood on the whistle I don't think this has changed.

And yes reducing the number of players would have a big difference in increasing number of teams/players playing. Say you have 24 players on a roster. You would not even consider entering 2 teams as no subs. However if it were 10 aside, then I beleive you would, as juniors can then make up the numbers in a B team.

The main rule differences are 10 per side, most clubs are joined with a mens club so we utilise their pitch markings, including that of the keepers circle (however not sure on that). 2 kept back behind restrainer so leaving 7 v 7, so with us now keeping 4 back this is the same and much better. Yellow card rule is 2 min penalty and no substitute for the full 2 mins regardless of goal being scored. 25 min halves with stop clock i think.

cheers
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Kari Gosnay-Jones
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Postby Kari Gosnay-Jones Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:44 am

Does anyone know why the 7v7 rule is being trialled in Schools and clubs leagues across the country and some of the best players in the country are not trialling this rule and having their opinions canvassed.

I know Robbo said that this 7v7 rule has already been trialled, but this is the first time in the last 10 years we have trialled it up North so when was this rule last trialled? and do you not think it is both experimenting with?

If I was playing territorials this year, I would most annoyed that my opinion was being canvassed at one of the most pretigous dates in the lacrosse calendar.

As a coach, the 7v7 rule gives some interesting and exciting sets and formations on the offence, I think it would be shame that it not continue to be adopted.

Does anyone know WHO makes the decision about these rules? To whom should people express their opinion to? Based on everything else it will probably be the WPC.

Come on UK, stop being so stuck in your ways, stop being so change resistant and move forward!! grrrr!
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Re:

Postby rpowell Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:37 pm

GB make the decision on rules at Home Internationals. Personally I think that trialling the rules for at least one season is appropriate...

But back to to Territorials, which was your question... somewhere in the ELA, there will be people making that decision. It should be the Rules and Umpiring folk (opinion), but WPG may end up getting a say (suspicion).

Personal opinion again: disagree with you - I think 8v8 is the way to go; but 7v7 should be tried for one season, so that the players at the top end of the spectrum have a chance to experience the difference, and make informed comment...

Kari Gosnay-Jones wrote:Does anyone know why the 7v7 rule is being trialled in Schools and clubs leagues across the country and some of the best players in the country are not trialling this rule and having their opinions canvassed.

I know Robbo said that this 7v7 rule has already been trialled, but this is the first time in the last 10 years we have trialled it up North so when was this rule last trialled? and do you not think it is both experimenting with?
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Re: Re:

Postby chippie Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:18 am

Kari Gosnay-Jones wrote:Does anyone know why the 7v7 rule is being trialled in Schools and clubs leagues across the country and some of the best players in the country are not trialling this rule and having their opinions canvassed.


Rob can confirm or not but I think this was from R&U
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My views and opinions are my own and do not reflect views or opinions of any other club, organisation, institution.

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