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ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

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WhydoIbother
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby WhydoIbother Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:46 am

I've just received my daily "Hi, we think you may be entitled to compensation of up to £3500 from missold PPI on a credit card or loan. Reply INFO for more info. Reply STOP to opt out" text. I can pass on their contact details if we need "legally trained professionals" to recover some miss sold financial products.

Or isn't the phrase "you are not covered under the terms of your policy" the standard response to claims by "budget" insurance companies. Isn't it the start of negotiations? In which case this is a mountain out of a mole hill and will just take a little time to resolve.

And finally, has anyone seen the so called "cover" that's provided? When insurance was implemented a "few" years ago, I saw a list of the so called "benefits" of the cover. At the time I considered they were the bare minimum basic cover to provide some protection to those involved in the game. Thing might have improved since then but when this is resolved it might be worth publicising the benefits and limits of the policy.
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wildcat
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby wildcat Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:21 am

Girl gets hit in eye playing lacrosse
She loses her eye

Regardless of if it was bad refereeing or a fluke accident she was told by the ELA that they didnt cover that sort of thing. If she wanted to, she could fork money out of her own pocket to sue someone, and see if she got some compensation by rinsing them. It wasn't made clear if the person she sued would be covered by the ELA insurance policy.

It was on the forum about 3 or 4 years ago. I raised it then, and probably because it was women's lacrosse it fizzled out in a day.

4 years on ELA are suggesting as of this week that women wear protective eye wear, and someone tries to claim for something on the insurance that they think they have to find it does not cover what they thought it did.
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buckers_the_great
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby buckers_the_great Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:49 am

Are we any clearer on an offical answer yet with SEMLA games planned for this weekend?
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the pom
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby the pom Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:54 am

speaking of PPI

if the banks mis sell you products you get compensation

will the ela refund the clubs for the years of mis sold insurance if the insurance id found to be incorrect?
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Moaning Git
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Moaning Git Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:55 am

Yeh right Pom, you can have a full refund, lets say 46p. As an individual you pay bugger all for ELA membership, and what you do pay usually goes via the club fees, and do they have their own public liability insurance as they should do? If not are you going to claim a refund from them? I know you love having a pop at the ELA, but get real!
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S_24_LAX
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby S_24_LAX Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:58 am

Has any one answered Buckers question
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the pom
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby the pom Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:20 pm

did not as for a refund for myself just asked if the clubs would be I dont know how many years the clubs have paid and how much over this time.

but your example 46P x 200 menbers x 4 years 368quid new kit for the kids? new leagal goal?

and yes i would expect the ELA to get things as important as this right that is not unreasonable
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Moaning Git
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Moaning Git Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:31 pm

Pom you miss the point that the policy has never covered clubs, it applies to individual members, as registered with the ELA. Clubs should have their own PL insurance, and many do as part of multisport club policies.

And I understand that a letter has been sent or is about to be sent to SEMLA, and further info will be issued generally.
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stocklax26
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby stocklax26 Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:30 pm

All,

Please follow the link below to read the official statement from English Lacrosse.

http://www.englishlacrosse.co.uk/lacrosse-talk/english-lacrosse-insurance-statement-7475/

Thanks,

Sam.
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Raptor_attack Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:24 pm

So players have public liability but clubs do not.

I'm not going to try and dissect the actual policy, could someone sum it up in laymans terms.

If I shoot and break a car window (if you know me, you'll know that's more likely than me scoring) am I covered by the insurance policy for the damage, or is it only for me personally. I.e. If I get injured and can't work?
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wildcat
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby wildcat Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:32 pm

How about if you shoot it goes between the bars of my visor, hits me in the eye and blinds me.
Or if you hack at a ground ball, miss and break my tibia?
Or cross check my neck and break it.

Are any of those covered? Time to look into their document but not sure that I'll understand it.
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DannyB
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby DannyB Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:00 pm

We need a definitive who and what is covered fairly rapido!

I just went through it and saw a clause that said no personal injury is covered! But I'm no expert and I guess we could all come up with different interpretations which is why SEMLA and/or the ELA need to spell it out for us poor souls. Please.
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Chilli
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Chilli Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:02 pm

Here is the text of the letter to SEMLA Clubs

To SEMLA Clubs
You will be aware of the recent concern that there has been over the level of cover provided by the ELA’s Public Liability Policy.
The SEMLA Committee requested clarification of the cover from the ELA several weeks ago.
Responses were promised but didn’t arrive.
Aware of the Committee’s responsibility for the safety of the players and other participants, SEMLA reluctantly issued the advice last week advising the Clubs of our concerns.
Following discussions directly with the ELA’s insurance broker and the receipt of a letter from the ELA which answers the questions raised by SEMLA, we are pleased to confirm that the ELA’s Public Liability policy does provide full cover for registered ELA members while playing and/or practising lacrosse.
Cover applies both to players, referees and match officials. Under the ELA's policy, any liability claims must be on the individual and not their lacrosse Club.
Having a better understanding of the issues, SEMLA has made recommendations to the ELA to provide better guidance to the members of the cover provided and on how to handle future insurance claims.
We would like to remind members that they are not covered for any form of personal accident or injury caused by another player while taking part in lacrosse activity.
This has been the situation for several years and members are advised to consider their own circumstances in the event of loss of income or any other bodily injury and to make insurance provision according to their circumstances.
Please remember that you must be registered on the ELA membership database to benefit from the Public Liability Cover.
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Chilli
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Chilli Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:52 pm

Danny, you (and everyone else) deserves to understand exactly what is covered so that you can make any decisions on additional cover according to your circumstances.

Insurance is one of those issues that sends people to sleep until things go wrong and that's when they expect everything to be what it should be.
That's why it is the responsibility of the ELA and the Regional Associations to ensure that the 'safety net' of the insurance is absolutely right and not going to let anyone down when they need it.

Having pursued this for several weeks and finally having met with the ELA's insurance broker yesterday in London, I now have a much better understanding than ever before.
The problem seems to be that the ELA did not really understand the policy in depth and consequently many people got different interpretations over many years.
The ELA has not publicised or advised on the cover provided or made any efforts to ensure that Clubs or the Associations understood and could make informed decisions.

No one can expect the ELA to have insurance experts on the staff but you can expect that they would partner with a third party to provide the missing information and services.

Therefore after weeks of delay it is good to see that something has been done quickly to improve the situation.

The basic issue was identified in less than ten minutes after weeks of emails, delays etc etc.
There was a misunderstanding of what constituted a 'club'

In broad terms, the insurance world understands a Club as the physical clubhouse, grounds etc that a football, cricket or rugby club would typically have.
For that you need Public Liability to cover for someone tripping over a badly maintained path, being hit on the head by a slipping roof tile etc etc.

In the ELA terms, a club is a collection of individuals who all play for and pay their subscriptions to an entity with a name, therefore, there was something of a disconnect in understanding.
So keep Club as the physical place where you play and Club as the virtual entity that you play for as separate things entirely, they just happen to use the same word.

As we all know, every lacrosse club is either an integrated part of a wider sports club or a guest section hiring the use of the ground from a rugby/cricket/multi-sport facility, therefore, for general public liability purposes as described above, the lacrosse club comes under the umbrella of the host club.
However, the host club's public liability policy is unlikely (unless specifically identified) to cover for the specific public liability that results from the playing of the game of lacrosse.
therefore, the ELA's cover provides for that.
Now, the ELA could have chosen to wrap everything up into one contract and included the lacrosse club itself as a virtual entity so that, for example, if the lacrosse club were ever sued for malpractice there would be professional indemnity cover.
However since the club is the collection of individuals and the individuals are all fully covered for PL by the ELA as long as they are registered, there have to be pretty specific circumstances to justify the extra costs.
So why was there a problem? Well, it's basically to do with how a claim is handled and the confusion over the word 'Club'
The insurance policy is for individuals so claims must be dealt with as individuals and not handled through the Club (the virtual lacrosse Club) acting on behalf of the individual. If the virtual lacrosse Club makes the claim then it will be rejected because the ELA policy specifically excludes Clubs (both virtual and physical) for the reasons given above.
So how does the individual deal with such matters without involving his virtual or physical club?
Good question and one that SEMLA have suggested the ELA should work on with the insurer and provide an online FAQ and maybe an email or phone helpline to ensure people know what to do and how to do it.
The ELA's policy is fine as long as we can get over the hurdle of how an individual deals with a claim without becoming embroiled in the Club issue.

In terms of personal accident while playing, that was removed from the policy ten years ago because the payouts were so low as to be derisory.
It was the last time that the membership were consulted about the policy, the clubs voted in favour of keeping the premium lower than it would otherwise have been.
However, the consequence of such a decision is an onus on the ELA to keep reminding existing clubs and players and new clubs and players of the insurance situation so they can make their own decisions about personal accident, loss of income etc.

Maybe personal accident benefits should be added in again but don't expect it to be cheap, some people won't need or want it but they would be paying for it anyway.
By contrast with other sports the ELA have done a very poor job of informing members about the cover provided and the options for extra cover that members could choose if they want.
For comparison, take a look at how Hockey do it, clear and complete information, a link to a partner insurance website with all the policy options available, why can't we have something like that?
http://www.englandhockey.co.uk/page.asp ... ffiliation
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Chilli
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Chilli Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Raj,

Personal injury is not covered if the accident happens as part of the normal course of playing lacrosse, it is a risk that you take by participating.

It's the same in all contact sports.

You can choose to mitigate that risk by taking out cover for personal accident/loss of income/compensation for lost limbs etc

However, if someone were to attack you outside the rules of the game then you may have a civil claim against them.
Of course that's loaded with ifs and buts and lots of caveats but someone cannot use the game as a excuse for a physical assault.
There have been examples in other sports where players have sued other players for extreme cases of assault
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Chilli
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Chilli Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:28 pm

Mike, to answer your question, it depends on several factors

It may be that the host club posts signs that say 'all users use this car park at their own risk, no liability accepted' which is not unusual at sports grounds in which case, it's unfortunate but there's no liability.

But if that's not the case then if you were to break a car window as a part of games/training, the car owner would inform their insurers who would make a claim on your ELA cover.
The tricky bit at present is to make sure that the ELA's insurers don't disallow your cover because they confuse you with the Club that you play for or push the claim onto the liability of the physical club that you play at where the car's window was broken.
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Raptor_attack
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Raptor_attack Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:16 pm

Trevor, excellent explanation and clear. Thank you.
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DannyB
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby DannyB Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:33 am

Thanks Trevor - great clarity and guidance.

Big thanks to SEMLA for sorting out a problem not of their making.
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby JGJ Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:50 am

DannyB wrote:Thanks Trevor - great clarity and guidance.

Big thanks to SEMLA for sorting out a problem not of their making.


Not sure how you can say its not a problems of SEMLA's making? SEMLA are a sub committee of MPC which is a Sub committee of the ELA executive, therefore SEMLA is the ELA? As are every member of every club, as long as they are registered!

If members in England have a problem with the ELA then they have a problem with the individuals that they have asked to represent them.

Just out of interest, if I throw a ball through a window while playing lacrosse in my garden I claim on by building insurance, not the public liability policy of the Governing Body of the sport in my country! I get that people do lots of great work growing the game in England but you also do a great deal of complaining, I guess that's a national trait?
Last edited by JGJ on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Moaning Git
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Re: ATTENTION ALL SEMLA CLUBS

Postby Moaning Git Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:06 am

Lol..... it certainly is!

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