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KagedAnimal
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Re:

Postby KagedAnimal Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:52 pm

Whitey wrote:Pictures from the EG vs Hillcroft game

http://www.pictureporch.co.uk

Image


Cross check to the face Tony? No.... :lol:
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Whitey
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Postby Whitey Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:00 pm

It's a funny one.

Remembering this hit, it looked clean as anything, but the photo would suggest a high cross-check!
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jameskellam
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Postby jameskellam Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:06 pm

I only reffed the game. Portsmouth had about 15 men and gave two to UWIC so the match was 10 on 10. Wez played a half in goal (he only turned up at half time) there may or may not have been one or two other first teamers, I don't see them often enough to comment.
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Postby sw19 Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:03 pm

Spencer 2 vs Welwyn 2

Great game to play in with both teams bang up for it. The difference I think was the Spencer defence (long sticks, middie defence and goalie) who kept the very capabale Welwyn attack at bay for large portions of the game - even surviving a number of man down situations without conceding.

Spencer attack took their chances when they had them , especially the first quarter - I think welwyn guys were a bit taken aback to be 5v1 down at quarter time having had all the early possession and scored first. Not easy to come back from that but Welwyn kept fighting - they were brilliant at ground ball but couldn't break through often enough in settled offence.

Would love to play a game like that every week - good quality lacrosse and good spirit given what the game meant to both teams.
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Re:

Postby kjk20 Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:02 pm

Whitey wrote:It's a funny one.

Remembering this hit, it looked clean as anything, but the photo would suggest a high cross-check!


As the recipient, it didn't feel too bad at the time. Neck's a bit stiff today though.
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Mr.Stanford
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Re: Re:

Postby Mr.Stanford Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:40 pm

kjk20 wrote:
Whitey wrote:It's a funny one.

Remembering this hit, it looked clean as anything, but the photo would suggest a high cross-check!


As the recipient, it didn't feel too bad at the time. Neck's a bit stiff today though.


pff, left hand is clearly below the neck. clean as a whistle :)
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Jon_B
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Re: Re:

Postby Jon_B Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:21 pm

Mr.Stanford wrote:
kjk20 wrote:pff, left hand is clearly below the neck. clean as a whistle :)


Ahh, must be the new Welsh rule ammendment on cross checks :lol:
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S_24_LAX
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Postby S_24_LAX Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:51 am

Spencer 2 vs Welwyn 2

I reffed this game and was a great advert for East 2 lacrosse. Played hard and well by both teams with some outstanding lacrosse included.

Spencer 2 really took the game away from Welwyn in the first half with a 5:1 first quarter growing to a 11:2 half time score. As always Welwyn never give up and fought thier way back in the second half - just too much of a hill to climb.

Well played by both teams and great friendly banter all over the pitch
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BenDownton
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Re: Re:

Postby BenDownton Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:10 am

laxwill11 wrote:
Raptor_attack wrote:Penarth 7 - 9 Soton City


Exciting game - as happens so often at every level, this was won and lost in the 3rd quarter. Soton trailing 4-2 at halftime but stepped it up and won the 3rd 4-2, to give themselves a 6-4 lead at 3 quarter time. Penarth huffed and puffed and got it to 8-7 (admittedly thanks to one of the funniest own goals ive ever seen) with 2'30 left but just couldnt find the equaliser - then soton grabbed their last one as Penarth D pushed out and double teamed to try and win the ball back, missed the check and City finished the 1-on-1.

Good fun on a cold day. well done both teams


Mexican third quarter ;) Always works.

Also who scored that own goal? What a nob :oops:
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Sam H
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Postby Sam H Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:30 pm

Spencer 3s also pulled their result out of the bag with a 9 man squad in the end (once again sincere apologies lads for my part in our diminished numbers this weekend). Great effort guys. Roll on 2010....
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DannyB
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Postby DannyB Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:19 pm

Freedom for the Spencer 9!

Level at half time but a five-goal Q3 blitz taking full advantage of the sun drove Spencer clear.
Great shout from the frustrated Canterbury goalie as his attack struggled to break Spencer's miserly D. "It's not chess, you know. More than one of you can move at the same time!"
Fast improving team, great hosts and a good day out in Kent.
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Mirron23
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Postby Mirron23 Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:59 pm

DannyB wrote:Great shout from the frustrated Canterbury goalie as his attack struggled to break Spencer's miserly D. "It's not chess, you know. More than one of you can move at the same time!"


Amazing Quote!! :lol:

Well done Spencer 3's!
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fudge
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Re:

Postby fudge Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:19 am

Mirron23 wrote:
DannyB wrote:Great shout from the frustrated Canterbury goalie as his attack struggled to break Spencer's miserly D. "It's not chess, you know. More than one of you can move at the same time!"


Amazing Quote!! :lol:




Glad you fella's liked it lol. Me and my D boys were rolling out the analogies and it just came to mind. ;) ...lolz
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BFSalmi
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Spencer 2s vs Welwyn 2s

Postby BFSalmi Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:28 pm

That was my second game with Welwyn 2s and the difference between the two teams IMHO was more down to experience rather than difference in skills.

1. Spencer adapted to the ref, we did not. The ref called Welwyn boys for infringement that they are probably not called for usually (e.g. cross-check) and they were not able to alter their game. [Well they weren’t called for them in the previous game I played, despite doing them too and I understand that was a typical East 2 game.] Spencer did, hence the massive difference in number of personals between the two teams.
2. The ploughed field which arguably gave Spencer a proper home advantage. I read above that Welwyn were brilliant on groundball, I clearly must not have been playing in the same game and no Welwyn player will agree with that statement. Sure we were fighting hard for the ball but that was because we couldn’t get it off the ground in one swift movement in the first place. That’s a brilliant loose ball: off the ground and away. The Spencer Long poles were outstanding in that aspect and we were not able to emulate.
3. Both offenses had the same level of skills but Spencer’s made the most of the doubles and man-up situations. How many times did I see a Welwyn player clearly beating his man to next go bury himself in the middle of three Spencer guys without once looking up! Again, it works against other teams in this league but it just isn’t enough against a team with a slide package. Spencer, on the other hand, would pass the ball to the open man, helped by the off-ball movement that all their players were creating. Same difference occurred in the man-up situations: Spencer moved the ball until they had a clear shot, Welwyn guys cradled the ball far too long before passing it, allowing the D to re-set again and again.
4. Defence on clears. The Welwyn midfielders were repeatedly guilty of stick chasing in the middle of the pitch (especially against long poles), Spencer did body. It may work against weaker teams but when the long poles have minimal stick skills (which the Spencer boys clearly had), it does not pay off. On the contrary it created so many unsettled situations because the M was left to dry while the LP had a fast break.

All these mistakes are due to not playing against this standard of team week in and week out. The same argument could be used for Spencer but they did appear to generally be older than the Welwyn team, and I'm assuming have been playing lax for longer than the majority of the Welwyn players (not disrespect intended, just my observations).

Goalie from Welwyn had a very good game and kept the score respectable. Shame the rest of us couldn’t also raise the bar. Hopefully we’ll learn how to play better as a team and the return leg will be closer.
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S_24_LAX
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Postby S_24_LAX Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:54 pm

Spencer adapted to the ref, we did not. The ref called Welwyn boys for infringement that they are probably not called for usually (e.g. cross-check) and they were not able to alter their game. [Well they weren’t called for them in the previous game I played, despite doing them too and I understand that was a typical East 2 game.] Spencer did, hence the massive difference in number of personals between the two teams.


Having been the Ref involved, and I add a SEMLA Panel Ref. All the calls I make during the game are based and assessed upon what I saw in front of me at that moment in time. Unfortunatley for Welwyn one of thier players (No 36) had a habit of making many of his checks by throwing out both of his hands in front of him, with his stick at a parrellel to the ground and his hands atleast body width apart. Invariably his first point of imapct for it was upon his opponents body. He picked up 4 personal fouls for this and at half time I spoke with your goal keeper and asked him to advise him on this area (as I believe they are good mates) in addition I advised your coach to tell him to try to keep his hands together.

Beyond this I believe that the number of personal fouls accumulated by both teams were virtually level pegging and certainly within the last quarter the Spencer players picked up a couple of personals for late hits therein called as illegal body checks which I am sure they would not have been called for in the average East Two league match.

If you take out the 4 personals picked up by the same player from the equation then I am convinced the balance of fouls were pretty even. It is not the referees role on the pitch to caoch a player out of making the same repeated mistake and Welwyn 2 had a recognised coach on the sideline who was able to advise and assist the player in continuing to undertake the same mistake.

I have had a quick count back on the personal penalties called within the match and they were Spencer 2 6 x 1 minute - Welwyn 2 6 x 1 minute - do you want the technical foul stats as well Spencer 2 - 3 x 30 seconds - Welwyn 2 2 x 30 seconds.

You have to bear in mind this was a strong physical game played well by both sides and I do feel the foul count was very low for the context of this match - if you remove the one repeated foul by one player then it was a very low foul count.

I assessed the playing field before the match and ran all four boundaries of the field of play, checked both goal areas and rang diagonals across the pitch in my warm up. There is no way this field can be assessed as a "ploughed field" there was some wear and tear within the crease areas along the goal line but no indentaion to cause any poor bounce of the ball, additionally there was a little wear and tear at the face off area of the half way line and the point at which face was adjusted equally to the benefit of both teams. In no way was the pitch a hazard to any body participating within this match and given the weather conditions over the past few weeks was in very good condition. Studded boots allowed players to participate woithout danger or fear of injury.

I do recall a real pudding of a pitch at Welwyn last season for a clash between the two teams where one goal was extremely muddy and hazardous, in fact shots placed on the ground stuck in the mud rather than crossing the line. Cannot recall any criticism of the ref allowing the game to be played on that day - nor afterward sour grapes from the visiting team. If I recall correctly Hazel reffed that game and I gave her a big muddy cuddle at the end.

due to not playing against this standard of team week in and week out.


Surely it the responsibility of the team playing to aspire to endeavour to attain the expectations they have for thier own level of performance not to adapt to the level they play on a regular basis. If that's the case the likes of Lee/Purley and Hampstead over the years would not have endeavoured to improve to the levels they attained in the South. I don't know about any one else I always attend training and play games to attain the best possible level at the time.

In respect to the rest of your comments on the match you surely have very limited knowledge of Southern lacrosse at this level and you must have been participating in a very different game to which I officiated.

I am amazed by these comments as it is definitely I have not experienced from Welwyn players in the past and I have and will continue to happily discuss my refereeing decisions with Welwyn players after and during the game where time allows. In fact several Welwyn players thanked me after the game and I did diuscuss a couple of things with some of your senior players, in fact I even got thanked by one of your guys when he used abusive language on the pitch in frustration , where I quietly spoke to him and that was that.

I do not beilieve that I called this game in any biased way and feel quite affronted by these comments. I actually gave up the opportunity to make sure we had 10 players in the 3's at Canterbury (glad to see I wasn't needed) to make sure this match was covered by a Panel Ref.
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Postby BFSalmi Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:46 pm

I think you are reading too much in my comments. It wasn't a criticism of your officiating. I recognised they were infringements, so surely I am not criticising you for calling them.

as you pointed that, that players was repeatedly told about it and got 4 personal. Surely that's a failure to adapt. Again, it is a criticism towards Welwyn rather than your officiating.

I admittedly had a biased vue of the total numbers of personal we got compared to Spencer. This was probably due to Spencer effectiveness in converting those man-up situation into goals (point also made in my previous post). I would however be curious to check the total in the first half (again not a criticism, just curiosity).

You made a point of saying you are a Panel ref, so surely you must feel it is a details worth highlighting and that there is a difference in quality with none-panel referees! and my limited knowledge of south england lacrosse is not limited enough to know that there isn't panel refs at every game!

As for the field, Spencer long poles clearly were used to it, Welwyn weren't. As I said, if we were brilliant on ground balls I was clearly not at the same game.

But I agree with you... It is up to the team to raise the standard of play. I wasn't trying to take anything away from Spencer's victory, they deserved it. They showed more maturity than us, which I believe was due to having an older squad, capable of looking for a pass!
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Re:

Postby WTFAB Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:36 pm

BFSalmi wrote:
But I agree with you... It is up to the team to raise the standard of play. I wasn't trying to take anything away from Spencer's victory, they deserved it. They showed more maturity than us, which I believe was due to having an older squad, capable of looking for a pass!



How old are your Welwyn players? Im pretty sure that most of the Spencer 2nds are 16 ?
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DannyB
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Postby DannyB Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:39 pm

It can be a bit of a culture shock to get a panel ref at E2 level but any player who wants to progress should use it is a golden learning opportunity.
Ian called a guy from Northampton last year for repeated warding off much to the Weasels' frustration. It was the correct call, the player took it on board and by Q4 had eliminated it from his game and was way more effective. Good reffing, good learning.
It seems we all agree on that, which is good.

As for ploughed field, the ground is way better than some of the trench warfare I've been involved in when the skipper had to blow a whistle to signal an attack!
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steveg
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Postby steveg Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:29 pm

S_24_LAX wrote: do not beilieve that I called this game in any biased way and feel quite affronted by these comments. I actually gave up the opportunity to make sure we had 10 players in the 3's at Canterbury (glad to see I wasn't needed) to make sure this match was covered by a Panel Ref.


Ian, in no way did Bertrand mean to imply you were any way biased in refereeing this game. He was pointing out our inability to adapt to a better level of reffing than we are usually accustomed to. (Ie by somebody who actually knows the rules and applies them!

For the record we are always happy for you to ref our games and thanks for giving up your time to do it - it is appreciated.

Also thanks to Spencer 2 for the lesson they handed to us particularly in the first half where we basically got schooled. They were better than us in every area of the game particularly on man up play where they scored on nearly all their opportunities and we didn't.

We are not making any excuses - the pitch wasn't great but it was the same for both sides and your ground ball work was outstanding compared to ours. (And you are right - the Welwyn pitch last year was much much worse.)

All in all it was totally frustrating for us in how badly Spencer 2s made us play in the first half but despite being pretty physical it was played fairly by both sides and apart from losing I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I think we can improve our performance if we work on the weaknesses Spencer 2's exposed and we will be looking to give them a much better game at the end of the season.
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S_24_LAX
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Postby S_24_LAX Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:02 pm

Thanks Steve

Just to add I have also had two very nice PM's from Welwyn players since the post and appreciate how honest, true and open they are.

I am sure W2 will work on the areas shown in the game and have a good go at the game later in the season - wouldn't expect anything less and would be very dissappointed if they didn't.

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