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Greatest ever college player?

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UKLacrosse
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLacrosse Thu May 24, 2012 2:32 pm

Why would the answer to these questions about lacrosse be any different to a comparison within any other sport?
I was listening to 5-Live the other evening where they were discussing the best-ever UK (!!) football team made up of any players from any era. The arguments made for one player of a certain era over another from another time and place was interesting, but probably irrelevant. Sports change over a period of time ... equipment, diet, fitness, game analysis, motivation etc etc. I recall talking to Derek Ibbotson many years ago ... for those who don't know, he broke John Landy's world mile record in 1957, with 3:57.2. Ibbotson would openly talk about the way he prepared for his races at the White City ... fish and chips for lunch .... sometimes even skipping warming up for a session with his girlfriend down the road! Within 10 years Jim Ryun was running 6 secs faster, and if you looked at his training regime, and preparation, you would quickly realise that Ibbotson would never have been able to compete. Why? One simple reason is that he would never have subjected himself to that level of training and preparation!
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 24, 2012 2:45 pm

you seem to have missed the point... again

We are talking about the Best Lacrosse Player

Not the best athletes

You can be Bigger, Stronger & Faster and still not as good as lacrosse player

Otherwise we would never do stick work and spend all the time in the gym or on the track

I agree to cordially disagree with you

Playing lacrosse requires a number of Skills, some of which are athletic

some of which are not
- Technical
- Tactical/Stategic
- Mental

Otherwise Usain Bolt would be the best player in the World

He might be but I doubt it

Lacrosse is just like any other sport, there are a plethora of talents to become the GOAT

Is Lionel Messi the BFS player in the World?
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby Rotisserie Thu May 24, 2012 2:51 pm

Rotisserie wrote:Nowadays a D1 college lacrosse player spends hours every day in the gym and with personal trainers doing sophisticated work outs to keep them fiter, faster and stronger. On top of that they have extensive film sessions where they analyse every strength/weakness in their opponents.

I assume that the older generation still practised every day like the current one, but was there as much emphasis on athleticism and film?


Can anyone answer this question though? I'm genuinely interested to know.

and another (slightly) controversial question:

Could you argue that with the parity in the college game (and the larger player/recruiting pool which I touched on earlier) it is now harder to be a "stand-out" player?
Teams very rarely get blow-out results and there is definitely no single dominant #1 team (with the exception of Salisbury at the DIII level). What used to be "easy win" games for top flight programs like Hopkins, Syracuse et al are becoming increasingly difficult (e.g. Fairfield, Umass, Lehigh, Colgate, Bryant etc...)
Would Gary/Paul Gait put up the numbers they did in their day now taking in to account that they would be playing fewer "easy" games? or would they just be up at the top of the points column along with the likes of Stanwick, Baum, Manny and Holman?

:wink:
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 24, 2012 2:53 pm

Pele - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9
Alfredo DiStefano - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfredo_di_St%C3%A9fano
Ferenc Puskas - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Pusk%C3%A1s
Diego Maradona - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona

These players in their prime wouldn't make their National Teams now because the training methods are better now :lol:
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby young_trig Thu May 24, 2012 2:58 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:you seem to have missed the point... again

We are talking about the Best Lacrosse Player

Not the best athletes

You can be Bigger, Stronger & Faster and still not as good as lacrosse player

Otherwise we would never do stick work and spend all the time in the gym or on the track

I agree to cordially disagree with you

Playing lacrosse requires a number of Skills, some of which are athletic

some of which are not
- Technical
- Tactical/Stategic
- Mental

Otherwise Usain Bolt would be the best player in the World

He might be but I doubt it

Lacrosse is just like any other sport, there are a plethora of talents to become the GOAT

Is Lionel Messi the BFS player in the World?


To be fair, I think you missed some of Uklacrosse's point.
He saying that the as time moves forward, people train harder and prepare better.

Athletic - current NCAA lacrosse players condition themselves to within an inch of their life
Technical - they practice practice practice each element of their game to become the best they can
Tactical/Strategic - they learn playbooks inside-out, they watch hours and hours of game/player/scouting analysis
Mental - again, they get plenty of help with this one.

What I was saying is that the new generation are playing and learning in a completely different environment to the older generation.

I agree that Gait brothers continued to showcase their talent in the MLL but if they were playing along side the more recent greats, would they still hold all the records?

Would the older syracuse and hopkins teams continue to dominate the current crop if they were pitted togther?
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 24, 2012 3:00 pm

May I be so bold to suggest you go back to the start of the thread and read all the posts

Look at the stats and the results in the Easy Win games... they were all easy win games because you had the GOAT and his twin brother & his HOF mate on the same team.

Princeton had a threepeat when Hess/Hubbard were together win front of Morrow & Baccigalupo, their Coach Bill Tierney instigated a 19 Goal Rule!

I'd be very interested to here & read comments how the Gaits couldn't hack it nowadays and how BFS is all that counts

This is beginning to be FUN!
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLacrosse Thu May 24, 2012 3:04 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:you seem to have missed the point... again

We are talking about the Best Lacrosse Player

Not the best athletes

You can be Bigger, Stronger & Faster and still not as good as lacrosse player

Otherwise we would never do stick work and spend all the time in the gym or on the track

I agree to cordially disagree with you

Playing lacrosse requires a number of Skills, some of which are athletic

some of which are not
- Technical
- Tactical/Stategic
- Mental

Otherwise Usain Bolt would be the best player in the World

He might be but I doubt it

Lacrosse is just like any other sport, there are a plethora of talents to become the GOAT

Is Lionel Messi the BFS player in the World?


Sorry to say .... you've also missed the point sir .... lacrosse is not unique in requiring a host of different talents/ skills, as you quite rightly state. I was just using a simple example to demonstrate one aspect of how it might be irrelevant to compare one era from another. I listened at length to the discussion on football on 5-Live and wondered why they were really trying to make these comparisons. Maybe they had nothing else to talk about? Maybe the nonsense of advancements in equipment (as I've heard it said) has confused the issue, by helping today's lacrosse players better than they really are? Maybe Tiger Woods would never have been as good a golfer if he'd had to play with those old clubs and play on poorly prepared greens where 'reading' the green was more luck than judgement.
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby young_trig Thu May 24, 2012 3:25 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:May I be so bold to suggest you go back to the start of the thread and read all the posts

Look at the stats and the results in the Easy Win games... they were all easy win games because you had the GOAT and his twin brother & his HOF mate on the same team.

Princeton had a threepeat when Hess/Hubbard were together win front of Morrow & Baccigalupo, their Coach Bill Tierney instigated a 19 Goal Rule!

I'd be very interested to here & read comments how the Gaits couldn't hack it nowadays and how BFS is all that counts

This is beginning to be FUN!


I'mnot tyring to say that BFS is all that counts, but its obviously extremely important! If it wasn't, why do coaches spend so much time making sure that each individual player is as BFS as they can possibly be.

They do it becasue they realise that if other teams are going to make themselves BFS, then they too have to make themsleves BFS to be able to keep up.
I'm not trying to say that the Gaits wouldn' be as good in todays game, but they would need to adapt to play they way that coaches now demand. Surely?
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 24, 2012 3:35 pm

Has one of the Mods deleted my last post?

Why?

I was saying that comparing eras is difficult and futile and unless you have a DeLorian pointless

Was it saying watching the Gaits play with a Warrior Evo Pro 2.0 would be worth seeing?

What gives?
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Thu May 24, 2012 3:41 pm

Trig,

If you think ball movement and stick handling is better now than in the 80s...

I have nothing else to add

check out LaxPower and a gazillion opinions that differ from that from people who have been there and watched both

Washing Powder is always New and brighter than that crap stuff we used last week

Don't believe the hype!
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby young_trig Thu May 24, 2012 4:00 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:Trig,

If you think ball movement and stick handling is better now than in the 80s...

I have nothing else to add

check out LaxPower and a gazillion opinions that differ from that from people who have been there and watched both

Washing Powder is always New and brighter than that crap stuff we used last week

Don't believe the hype!



Firstly, I haven't deleted anything mate, and from what you say you said I doubt anybody else did.
I always find these kind of debates really interesting.

I'm in no position to say if ball handling and stick handling is any better now than in the 80s.
I do think though that the college game now is different from the game in the 80s. The tactics and strategies nowadays take advantage of BFS. But for the purists out there the older generation played the game in a brilliant way that was much more fun to watch and had real 1v1 battles defender Vs attacker. I remember reading an artical you posted a couple of years back which basically outlined the death of the attacker as we used to know their role.

I know the Gait brothers were amazing players, I'm just really interested to know how you think they would fit into current college lacrosse. I think players are as good as they are today becasue of players like the Gaits, they changed the mould.

I'm not saying that handling is better now but would it be at least fair to say that college players are now better at shooting on the run?
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Fri May 25, 2012 8:03 am

Trig

Amazingly sport was played before you were born, some of the players were pretty good

Your lack of respect for the older generation is disappointing

1980 Final - http://youtu.be/rsCMNa9hOLs

Watch & learn young blood

#uncledrew
http://youtu.be/8DnKOc6FISU

Top Players were Top Players whatever generation

get wise - get to school :wink:
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Fri May 25, 2012 8:09 am

young_trig wrote:I know the Gait brothers were amazing players, I'm just really interested to know how you think they would fit into current college lacrosse.


If Gary Gait was to find a year of eligibility somewhere and strap the pads on in the NCAA for a season

he would be 1st Team All American and POY

If he played all game rather than only the 1st half as he did in 1990, the 100 points barrier would be broken as well.

that was if he did it now in 2013 - He is 45 years old!

as a 22 year old.... Wow!
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby young_trig Fri May 25, 2012 8:33 am

UKLaxfan wrote:Trig

Amazingly sport was played before you were born, some of the players were pretty good

Your lack of respect for the older generation is disappointing

1980 Final - http://youtu.be/rsCMNa9hOLs

Watch & learn young blood

#uncledrew
http://youtu.be/8DnKOc6FISU

Top Players were Top Players whatever generation

get wise - get to school :wink:


I have plenty respect for the older generation. I know they were amazing players, I was just curious to see some debate on how the older generation teams would fair if they came up against the current generation. It would be interesting to see how the different styles of play would be agaisnst each other.

Jeez, I now know hoe Uklacrosse feels :?
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Re: Greatest ever college player?

Postby UKLaxfan Fri May 25, 2012 8:43 am

It isn't easy being right

somebody has to do it

you know a lot more about lacrosse than the other fellow :wink:

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