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Daveyoc
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Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby Daveyoc Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:38 pm

Does anyone know when the draw for the semi-finals will be done?
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby the pom Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:18 pm

What is the format is it seeded or are there sides of the draw or are all names back in the hat and drawn randomly.
Effectively can Stockport and cheadle meet before the final
Or will it be sorted so they don't
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby young_trig Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:41 pm

the pom wrote:What is the format is it seeded or are there sides of the draw or are all names back in the hat and drawn randomly.
Effectively can Stockport and cheadle meet before the final
Or will it be sorted so they don't


Not too sure exactly when it was done or how, but according to league website, Cheadle play wacs in one semi, meaning Stockport are left to play the winner of Mersey vs Mellor.

Looks like the Cheadle Stockport final is still a strong possibility
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby cjlax Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:11 pm

Why is there a draw for the semi's which is also separate to the quarters? Why are teams not seeded?

As a result of the current method in Prem 3 you will have 2 of the top 3 teams knocked out before the final.

As it stands the final will be 1/2 v 5/6. Which I anticipate will be a thrashing given the disparity in the level of play between teams in the division.

Is this what we want to see at a flags final? Would people really stay to watch Stockport thrash the 5/6 team in the senior flags?

It seems Prem 1 and Prem 2 will likely end up with the top two teams playing each other in the finals.
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby young_trig Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:24 pm

cjlax wrote:Why is there a draw for the semi's which is also separate to the quarters? Why are teams not seeded?

As a result of the current method in Prem 3 you will have 2 of the top 3 teams knocked out before the final.

As it stands the final will be 1/2 v 5/6. Which I anticipate will be a thrashing given the disparity in the level of play between teams in the division.

Is this what we want to see at a flags final? Would people really stay to watch Stockport thrash the 5/6 team in the senior flags?

It seems Prem 1 and Prem 2 will likely end up with the top two teams playing each other in the finals.


Historically, the Senior Flags used to be seeded based on the the final league positions of the previous season. i.e. the previous season's top 4 could not face each other in the quarter finals.
Had this years Senior Flags been seeded, it would have seen Mersey and Mellor seeded, neither of which have managed to make the top 4 on this seasons performances. The seeding was removed this season and it was luck more than anything that saw Cheadle and Stockport not end up on the same side of the draw.

On to Prem 3. How would you have suggested it was seeded? The cup draw is done during the season to give clubs plenty of warning. That would make it unfair to seed mid-season as not everybody would be up to the same number of fixtures completed etc. Going on the previous season's positions would also make things difficult as 2 of the teams would not have existed in prem 3 as they had not been relegated yet.

Definitely a shame to see 2 of the big Prem 3 teams out of the final before its even played though I must agree. Just don't know how it could be rectified!
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby UKLacrosse Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:09 pm

the pom wrote:What is the format is it seeded or are there sides of the draw or are all names back in the hat and drawn randomly.
Effectively can Stockport and cheadle meet before the final
Or will it be sorted so they don't


Cheadle and Stockport have effectively been separated at the semi-final stage for the 4th year running ... that's as random as it gets I guess!
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby LivTeamJones26 Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:40 pm

young_trig wrote:On to Prem 3. How would you have suggested it was seeded? The cup draw is done during the season to give clubs plenty of warning. That would make it unfair to seed mid-season as not everybody would be up to the same number of fixtures completed etc. Going on the previous season's positions would also make things difficult as 2 of the teams would not have existed in prem 3 as they had not been relegated yet.

Definitely a shame to see 2 of the big Prem 3 teams out of the final before its even played though I must agree. Just don't know how it could be rectified!


Top 4 at the end of regular season get a home cup fixture, bottom 4 then drawn? Give teams 3 weeks to prep and offer incentive for those vying for 3/4th?
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby ibop Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:46 pm

In Prem 3, the two top teams have been that for quite a long time, Newcastle were certainly promoted before the cup was drawn and I think Cheadle Hulme could only finish 3rd at worst by the same stage (and even then only by concessions). We're certainly disappointed to be playing Cheadle Hulme at the semi final stage rather than at the Rockerdome, but that's how it goes sometimes
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby LivTeamJones26 Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:09 pm

ibop wrote:Liverpool were great contenders last Saturday, unrecognisable from a couple of weeks before, was a great game to play in.


Bloody knackering game, but great fun, could genuinely have gone either way at one point in Q3 but Newcastle rallied back to see us off fair and square! Almost helped dull the anguish on the 3.5hr journey back :cry:

Alas, can't help but feel that (un)luck of the draw for Prem 3 in general has been a bit of a damp squib otherwise. Two teams into the semis without a game being played, and the winners of SF2 being the overwhelming favourites....
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby UKLacrosse Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:54 am

Mersey playing Stockport in the Flags Semi for the 3rd time in 4 years .... random?
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby young_trig Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:07 pm

ibop wrote:In Prem 3, the two top teams have been that for quite a long time, Newcastle were certainly promoted before the cup was drawn and I think Cheadle Hulme could only finish 3rd at worst by the same stage (and even then only by concessions). We're certainly disappointed to be playing Cheadle Hulme at the semi final stage rather than at the Rockerdome, but that's how it goes sometimes
Liverpool were great contenders last Saturday, unrecognisable from a couple of weeks before, was a great game to play in.



Agreed that the top 2 have been obvious for some time, but it would be a little bit unfait to toher teams if half-wat through the season the committee went "well those 2 teams should clearly be in the final so we'll set up the entire to draw to suit them". However, if they'd decided beforehand that the draw was to be seeded then it would be a little fairer.

This is the first year that we've had the new structure working so in hindsight it might be worth a proposal to ensure that cup is seeded like LivTeamJones26 suggests (based on positions after initial league games).

The logistics would need to be though through though. Such as the fact that not all of Prem 1, 2, and 3 finished at the same time so it would mean that the draw would either need to be done at different stages, or a draw based on league positions (i.e. 1v7 etc). The only problem with this latter proposal is that you might start seeing some teams try to throw games so that they can get a cup draw which is more appealable to them (i.e. less travelling etc). The draw is normally done at a forum meeting or committee meeting so everything would need to come togther at the right time. Basically, its difficult to get right and there will still be some people who don't like it.

There have been people saying for some time that the flags shouldn't be seeded. Now it appears that people possibly do. Perhaps something to vote on at the AGM?

As for UKlacrosse, I'm not quite sure why you keep going on about random. Since Mersey consistently make the last 4 of the cup, I would say its quite likely that they would meet Stockport or Cheadle (the top 2 seeds). Are you suggesting its rigged?
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby Backofthenet Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:45 pm

As an avid spectator of the sport the comments regarding Newcastle and cheadle hulme being the obvious finalists for division 3 must be in dispute after Ashton u lyne demolished stoke 27 - 3
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby Sour37 Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:22 pm

Backofthenet wrote:As an avid spectator of the sport the comments regarding Newcastle and cheadle hulme being the obvious finalists for division 3 must be in dispute after Ashton u lyne demolished stoke 27 - 3


Not to take anything away from them for the result on saturday, but it will be interesting to see if the way Ashton played stacks up against an experienced mobile defence like Cheadle Hulme's
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby cjlax Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:38 pm

Sour37 wrote:Not to take anything away from them for the result on saturday, but it will be interesting to see if the way Ashton played stacks up against an experienced mobile defence like Cheadle Hulme's


I also think it will be interesting to see which players Ashton actually field for the final too and whether it deviates much from the semi's team.
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby young_trig Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:46 am

For all of you that felt that Cheadle Hulme and Newcastle derserved to be seeded and promoted to the final, I think it should be noted that Ashton put in a very good performance at yesterdays Lancashire Cup final.

They were leading for most of the game and only fell behind in the final quarter. Final score 12-11 to Cheadle Hulme.
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Re: Cup Semi-Final Draw

Postby StaffsRat Fri May 02, 2014 10:12 am

young_trig wrote:For all of you that felt that Cheadle Hulme and Newcastle derserved to be seeded and promoted to the final, I think it should be noted that Ashton put in a very good performance at yesterdays Lancashire Cup final.

They were leading for most of the game and only fell behind in the final quarter. Final score 12-11 to Cheadle Hulme.


I'm personally glad Ashton gave CHLC a good game especially after the earlier comments. I was on that Stoke team that got beaten in the semis to Ashton. We were mainly guilty of assuming Ashton would spend more time in the box than on the field - instead we got a lesson in proper lacrosse (best performance against us since we've existed!).

As for those comments about 'seeding' the cup - surely the point of a cup draw is that it is meant to be random and meant to throw up different scenarios and well done to Ashton for proving this.

Me personally I would love to see a cup competition that all North teams go in to (sack of play in games maybe and long breaks!) but I don't see that happening
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