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JGRUB5
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League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby JGRUB5 Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:39 pm

I dont know if this is across all divisions, but does anybody who has played in Prem 1 think this season has been a disaster?

I dont know who is responsible for organising the leagues / fixtures or what system they use but I have seen Playstation Fifa tournaments run better. (Im not interested in how much of their own time give they give up to do it either before somebody brings that into it).

So this season our run of games has been as follows;

4 Games
3 Weeks off
4 Games
2 Weeks off
2 Games
6 Weeks off
3 Games

Now we get 4 weeks off to prepare for our ''Play-offs / Ins' . In theory they might have sounded like a good idea, but lets face it Cheadle have won the league and Boardman and Mellor are relegated so we might as well just scrap these games and let England train which brings me nicely to my next point - International breaks.

International breaks... Are you having me on? We genuinly have international breaks because 30 players go to america for a few days every so often? They are the best players we have, they pay their own way, they are committed, well done them but come on the rest of the league doesnt have to come to a halt, we could be playing matches instead of watching David Moyes try his best to get a point at fulham. I dont understand how professional sports like Cricket and Rugby can cope with international breaks but lacrosse cant? You could argue the majority of the england team come from 1/2 clubs, but then again we all get to hear all about how good their A teams are and what great shape their clubs are in so im sure they would be fine.

Does anybody else get as embarrased as me when a colleague asks how you got on at the weekend and you turn around and say it was an International break?

Oh and for everybody campaigning for new players and what we can do to tempt footballers into lacrosse, give up, why would they want to play a sport for 14 weeks a year when they could play 40 weeks a year in a better run sport.

Anyway, thats my rant over, off to play wall ball for 4 weeks before we can finish the season by playing the same club 3 times in 5 games. Dreadful.
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:55 am

Never fear grubs, all the issues you mention have recently been discussed and going to be addressed for next year.

Firstly , there are going to be no gaps in the fixtures for next year and NEMLA have decided to do away with international breaks. All games will now go ahead unless a team has more than 2 players on international duty. If they do, they are allowed to ask for a postponement.

As for the 4 week gap currently being experienced, i think this has more to do with the freak weather the uk is experiencing more than anything else
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D99
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby D99 Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:16 pm

But is a 14 game league season for Prem 1 players enough? If games are scheduled and played every week starting mid Sept, then they'll be almost done by Christmas. Maybe Prem 1 needs more teams......10 or 12? Whilst I appreciate that this would lead to some onesided matches, it would stretch the season into March and provide some variety for players and spectators alike.
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:32 pm

D99 wrote:But is a 14 game league season for Prem 1 players enough? If games are scheduled and played every week starting mid Sept, then they'll be almost done by Christmas. Maybe Prem 1 needs more teams......10 or 12? Whilst I appreciate that this would lead to some onesided matches, it would stretch the season into March and provide some variety for players and spectators alike.


Its a 17 league game season!
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby Fourteen Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:00 pm

We had a 4 free (dry) weekends prior to Christmas.
Although I agree the South has seen some of the worst storms for a while, up North, its been wet. Its usually wet up North over the winter months. That's no suprise. What was the purpose of 4 free weekends?

Play in games - only work if the league is tight.
These games now seem redundant and lack purpose.

Prem 3 - the gulf in standard between Prem 2 and Prem 3 is massive.
Why is it a straight 2 up, 2 down? It doesn't favour the league and it doesn't favour the clubs involved.
What happened to the play off games played last year? If I recall Newcastle (then Prem 2) lost to Nottingham (then Prem 3), proving the Prem 3 team was at a standard to play in Prem 2. In the other play off, Chealde Hulme (then Prem 3) were due to play Norbury (then Prem 2) but Cheadle Hulme couldn't get a team out.
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:51 pm

Fourteen wrote:We had a 4 free (dry) weekends prior to Christmas. Although I agree the South has seen some of the worst storms for a while, up North, its been wet. Its usually wet up North over the winter months. That's no suprise. What was the purpose of 4 free weekends? Play in games - only work if the league is tight. These games now seem redundant and lack purpose. Prem 3 - the gulf in standard between Prem 2 and Prem 3 is massive. Why is it a straight 2 up, 2 down? It doesn't favour the league and it doesn't favour the clubs involved. What happened to the play off games played last year? If I recall Newcastle (then Prem 2) lost to Nottingham (then Prem 3), proving the Prem 3 team was at a standard to play in Prem 2. In the other play off, Chealde Hulme (then Prem 3) were due to play Norbury (then Prem 2) but Cheadle Hulme couldn't get a team out.


I think you make some valid points. You're not the only person or club frustrated by weekends off during good weather and then missing out when the weather does actually turn. It's been a problem brought up in the NEMLA minutes this season and at the Player Forums. Don't hold me to this but I think that the secretary has made a commitment to stop the international breaks and I think reduce the free weekends. I think the original intention was to spread the season out but it seems to regularly backfire. You can bet though that if next season they play all the games and get them out of the way then we will be followed by weekends of good weather and probably lots of complaints about what to do with the free time. It's difficult to do anything perfectly in these situations but my own personal preference would be to get all the league completed as soon as possible, rather than being drawn out with bad weather. Any free weekends at the end could be filled with friendlies which clubs would be free to arrange at their own will.

I will say this though. I can't remember a season in the last 10 years that hasn't lost several weeks to the weather. No point over scheduling the season with too many fixtures that will never get completed.

They may be getting labelled as "play in" games but they are essentially extra league games against those teams in the division which the league matches so far have suggested you are most evenly matched to. They should therefore be competitive and not as one sided as some of the other games that can happen when the top is pitted against the bottom. I remember under the old league formats that relegation and promotion had been decided with several weeks to go. It's unfair to single out the new format for this situation. However, had the leagues not been decided yet, the extra matches would be important and extremely competitive. I would also point out Prem 2 as an example of one division that still has an awful lot to be decided on the extra games!

As for 2 up and 2 down. I personally agree with you, but the clubs voted out any changes to the number of spots last season!

They weren't play-offs last season. They were special matches to sort out the structures for the new leagues. 9th and 10th had already been relegated. 7th and 8th had to play-off against the top of the division below
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby Wacs10 Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:52 am

It all needs to be looked into, if the ELA dont realise that it is effecting our sport then they really dont care about Lacrosse in this nation reaching its full potential. The format set up at the end of the season has no purpose and when play starts the winner and loser of the league could already be decided! it seems to get the top 4 to play better competition before the world games!

The U19's also needs to be looked at.
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:05 pm

Wacs10 wrote:It all needs to be looked into, if the ELA dont realise that it is effecting our sport then they really dont care about Lacrosse in this nation reaching its full potential. The format set up at the end of the season has no purpose and when play starts the winner and loser of the league could already be decided! it seems to get the top 4 to play better competition before the world games!

The U19's also needs to be looked at.


Are you suggesting that in the old format we should have all just stopped playing the second that the top and bottom spots were decided? Top 4 will get more competitive games, but so will the bottom 4. Are you saying you want less competitive games? :?

They are simply extra league games. It's not the new formats fault that cheadle have been so dominant this season
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby LivTeamJones26 Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:11 pm

My 2p:


+ The lessons have been learnt over international breaks
+ Top of the league will always spank bottom of the league. Even being 10% worse than another team in Lacrosse can lead to heavy defeats. Play ins try to solve this.
+ Prem 2 appears to be much more competitive
+ Last year people were complaining that there were teams in Prem 1 that weren't good enough, it was addressed, now there are too few teams?!?!
+ Prem 2 to Prem 3 is still a big jump. I think the only way to fix this is again to have more first teams in general. This allows for bigger/more Prem leagues and clubs "finding their level"
+ Fingers crossed we welcome back Oldham next year, and say hello to Ruthin and Rotherham!
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby whopead Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:07 pm

Unfortunatley in the case of Nottingham. We had a good season and were promoted after beating an understrength Newcastle side then to find that the Bar in Prem 2 had been raised and we have been nowhere near competing in the majority of our games. With injuries and retirements it has meant that the players we have are struggling even more to compete. Season has been a write off. But hey ho i guess thats the way it is with so few first teams the standard will always be spread

We have unis starters with 1 or 2 years experience playing against International standard players. We are always going to struggle
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby green Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:41 am

Just for clarity, Prem 1 relegation is not yet settled for this season. Heaton Mersey could still get relegated.
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:01 pm

green wrote:Just for clarity, Prem 1 relegation is not yet settled for this season. Heaton Mersey could still get relegated.


And while we're at it, Cheadle could still get pipped by Stockport
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby davidmcculloch81 Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Just thought of a scenario. Can this happen? 8-team league finishes as follows (say):

Team 1 loads pts
Team 2 loads pts
Team 3 loads pts
Team 4 6pts
Team 5 5pts
Team 6 5pts
Team 7 5pts
Team 8 2pts

Team 4 then play the four-team mini league and get pumped by better opposition (Teams 1, 2 & 3) every week.

Teams 5, 6 and 7 all thrash Team 8. Do Team 4 then go down? That would seem unfair and they would be at a disadvantage of finishing 4th. Or can only 2 of Teams 5, 6, 7 & 8 get relegated after the split?
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:08 pm

davidmcculloch81 wrote:Just thought of a scenario. Can this happen? 8-team league finishes as follows (say):

Team 1 loads pts
Team 2 loads pts
Team 3 loads pts
Team 4 6pts
Team 5 5pts
Team 6 5pts
Team 7 5pts
Team 8 2pts

Team 4 then play the four-team mini league and get pumped by better opposition (Teams 1, 2 & 3) every week.

Teams 5, 6 and 7 all thrash Team 8. Do Team 4 then go down? That would seem unfair and they would be at a disadvantage of finishing 4th. Or can only 2 of Teams 5, 6, 7 & 8 get relegated after the split?


Team 4 (or above) can't finish below 4th.
Team 5 (or below) can't finish above 5th
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby davidmcculloch81 Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:37 pm

Thought that might be the case. So theoretically a team could finish 5th with more points than the team who finished 4th?
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Re: League Format / Fixtures / International Breaks

Postby young_trig Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:36 pm

davidmcculloch81 wrote:Thought that might be the case. So theoretically a team could finish 5th with more points than the team who finished 4th?


Well deduced

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