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UKLaxfan
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North vs South

Postby UKLaxfan Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:56 pm

not the usual economic/social and lacrosse divide in England

but Hemispheres

We've just had an amazing weekend of sport with competition between Northern & Southern Hemispheres

In Rugby across the codes New Zealand had two amazing get out of jail comeback wins in the last seconds of the game
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/25080399

We also had The Ashes disappointing end against those Aussie chaps

What are the reasons for the difference in attitude to sport?

The Rugby League World Cup Final takes place next week and in Union the 2003 World Cup success seems a lot more than a decade ago.

In Denver 2014 England will have the chance to play the Aussies again in Lacrosse World Champs

How do you think we will go on and why?
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Re: North vs South

Postby davidmcculloch81 Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:24 pm

Hang on a minute, let's look at overall trends here*:

Men's Lacrosse

1998
England 6 - 11 Australia
2002
England 8 - 19 Australia
2006
England 3 - 16 Australia
2010
England 8 - 10 Australia (OT)

Rugby League

2000
England 6 - 49 New Zealand
2008
England 22 - 32 New Zealand
2013
England 18 - 20 New Zealand (last gasp try)

Rugby Union

Ireland have never beaten New Zealand in their history.
In 2012 New Zealand beat Ireland 60-0 and 42-10
2013 - Ireland lose by 2 points to injury time try

Cricket

1989 - 2003
Australia dominate Ashes
Since 2005
Australia win 1 Ashes Series, England win 4

So let's not look at isolated events and more at trends. On this evidence I think we can say that the north are closing the gap on the south.

* all based on Wikipedia research and could therefore be bollocks
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Re: North vs South

Postby UKLaxfan Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:50 pm

At Junior level North has had success

Lacrosse U19s 2008 & 2012 both by a single goal

Rugby Union England beat Wales in the Junior World Final in 2012 (1st NH win)

In pro sports SH teams show some common traits
- more aggressive
- more willing to bend rules
- bigger, stronger, faster, fitter

There is absolutely no physiological reason for this same species (although some Aussies are mongrels)
so in the Nature vs Nurture it must be Nurture.

The Barmy Army may suggest a "convict" gene but I don't support this view plus NZ & SA beat Aus regularly at Union

So what happens between U19s and senior level?
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Re: North vs South

Postby davidmcculloch81 Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:14 pm

Historically, you can't rule out climatic influences. Easier to play out all year round when it's not belting it down with rain/snow or blowing a hooley.

Perhaps advances in strength and conditioning science (across the world) are contributing to the gap between North and South narrowing - i.e. less reliance on running about a bit outside and more on highly specific training (say, in the gym). Hence no longer a reliance on climate.

Also, more for individuals, world travel being much easier allows professionals to train in a climate/environment that best suits - e.g. Andy Murray setting himself up in Miami.
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Re: North vs South

Postby davidmcculloch81 Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:25 pm

Further to above, and I'm thinking on my feet a bit now, the benefits of 3G/4G turf are obvious to people who use it on a day-to-day level; but could this be the saviour of British team ball sports?

Football - my generation (30+), as a kids we were taught to hoof it up field at first opportunity. Skills and tricks were derided and coached out of you. Is this due to terrible playing surfaces? 3G/4G turf would solve this if we are prepared to let it as a culture, which I think we are now starting to. Stan Collymore recently talked up benefits of Footsal, which is played with a small heavy ball by Spanish/South Americans - promotes keeping the ball down and playing to feet. Not possible in mud but feasible on artificial surfaces.

Lacrosse - this is a bit further off due to amateur nature and relative popularity (hence funding); but long term could see benefits of playing on artificial turf (if not moved to summer). Currently we don't really have an identity - play English game in league lacrosse - predominantly off-ball, feeding and finishing. We are then taught to play a completely different game at international level on artificial surfaces - dodge-pass-pass-dodge. If and when the league game catches up with artificial/summer pitches then this would make transition from club to country easier. In the meantime I would promote a more 'English' style of lacrosse at international level. However, that is another argument entirely...
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Re: North vs South

Postby UKLaxfan Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:26 pm

davidmcculloch81 wrote:Football - my generation (30+), as a kids we were taught to hoof it up field at first opportunity. Skills and tricks were derided and coached out of you. Is this due to terrible playing surfaces? 3G/4G turf would solve this if we are prepared to let it as a culture, which I think we are now starting to. Stan Collymore recently talked up benefits of Footsal, which is played with a small heavy ball by Spanish/South Americans - promotes keeping the ball down and playing to feet. Not possible in mud but feasible on artificial surfaces.


Football - my generation (40+) weren't taught anything, didn't practice just played 11-a-side on full sized pitch & goal
You learned by watching Kick-off on a Sunday with Gerald Sinstadt. Only live footy on TV was FA Cup Final.
In later years I remember playing on all weather pitches (not astroturf) of shale where the bounce was so high the ball only visited the ground occasionally, having spent most of it's time in outer orbit. Shale also has the advantage that you slide all over the place so non of that fancy change of direction stuff or you would end up on your backside!

Futsal: is excellent by the way a mate's son played and had coaching. All kids had a ball and spend an hour doing skills & drills. I believe actual games are indoor with smaller goal

Wish I had YouTube when I was a kid
http://youtu.be/6zObjq7VAA4
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Re: North vs South

Postby the pom Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:39 pm

i think there is a bit of mis conception

yes it is warmer in oz but half the pitches I played on were worse than the UK.

I can be just as wet if not more so.( I played a few games in mud that would have been called of here)
in the middle of summer the pitch turns to dust with random bits of grass and rock hard bits so the ball can go any where

it also was regularly to hot to play

they had less 3g and Astro turf pitches they we do over here

I think it is more of a general attitude to sport a few of the guys I know put uni on hold or left their jobs to train for the world games.
they get massive support from the clubs they play for like fund raising I think this help add drive as thy don't want to let every one down.
also coaching they appeared to have an abundance of respected older player return to coach all levels junior to senior
sport just seams more ingrained in live every one supports sports it is joked about you Could get 60,000 out in Melbourne to watch tiddle winks.
if anything we have the advantage with funding and infrastructure and this is probably why we are making up ground.
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012

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