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Re: League north structure

Postby young_trig Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:59 am

the pom wrote:Stockport 17-1 Sheffield University; Sheffield Steelers 23-1 Newcastle; Brooklands 26-1 Ashton; Hull 29-2 City of Stoke; Wilmslow A 22-0 Cheadle C; Timperly C 27-6 Brooklands B; Newcastle 0-16 Rochdale

I think drubbings that may affect your promotion are very very common in the current structure. this is only a couple of weeks in.

please confirm you think results like this are

1 good for the game
2 fun for anyone to play in
3 going to convince new teams to keep going out and getting hammered week in week out instead of in the occasional games that could possibly have ringers in it.

the current structure would be the right way to go if we had possible double to 3 times the number of first teams but we dont so before more small more established teams are forced out of existence prem 3 folds so new teams only come up against large clubs with multiple teams with better players in prem 2 close any door on any chance of promotion for new clubs.

does any one know what the record score is for a uk domestic match will it get beaten this year is a 50-0 possible.



2 things.

1) Did drubbings not happen under Saint League Structure of Old (may they rest in peace)? I for one can remember plenty of times my team either handed out or received a drubbing

2) Stop using the Sheffield Uni Vs Stockport score as an example of the new structure not working. They got promoted to the Prem under the old structure and have kept their spot in the top flight ever since. I don't see you mentioning Heaton Mersey 3 -17 Stockport. Stockport are class above and their dominance is freaky. If anything, the old structure made it harder to relegate teams from Prem 1 and meant that poor teams got to fight on another year!
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Re: League north structure

Postby the pom Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:10 am

young_trig wrote:
the pom wrote:Stockport 17-1 Sheffield University; Sheffield Steelers 23-1 Newcastle; Brooklands 26-1 Ashton; Hull 29-2 City of Stoke; Wilmslow A 22-0 Cheadle C; Timperly C 27-6 Brooklands B; Newcastle 0-16 Rochdale

I think drubbings that may affect your promotion are very very common in the current structure. this is only a couple of weeks in.

please confirm you think results like this are

1 good for the game
2 fun for anyone to play in
3 going to convince new teams to keep going out and getting hammered week in week out instead of in the occasional games that could possibly have ringers in it.

the current structure would be the right way to go if we had possible double to 3 times the number of first teams but we dont so before more small more established teams are forced out of existence prem 3 folds so new teams only come up against large clubs with multiple teams with better players in prem 2 close any door on any chance of promotion for new clubs.

does any one know what the record score is for a uk domestic match will it get beaten this year is a 50-0 possible.



2 things.

1) Did drubbings not happen under Saint League Structure of Old (may they rest in peace)? I for one can remember plenty of times my team either handed out or received a drubbing

2) Stop using the Sheffield Uni Vs Stockport score as an example of the new structure not working. They got promoted to the Prem under the old structure and have kept their spot in the top flight ever since. I don't see you mentioning Heaton Mersey 3 -17 Stockport. Stockport are class above and their dominance is freaky. If anything, the old structure made it harder to relegate teams from Prem 1 and meant that poor teams got to fight on another year!


1. yes but no where near as often not 3-4 per week every week
2. they may not have got prommoted as not good egnought to beat the A teams and would thefore be in a league more suited to them so it would have worked

i do not say the old structure is perfect just better than what we moved to that is all.

mersey stockport was a drubbing but that is why they are the top in the top division mersey have a poor start to the year i would not expect that score to be repeated.
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: League north structure

Postby young_trig Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:17 am

the pom wrote:
young_trig wrote:2 things.

1) Did drubbings not happen under Saint League Structure of Old (may they rest in peace)? I for one can remember plenty of times my team either handed out or received a drubbing

2) Stop using the Sheffield Uni Vs Stockport score as an example of the new structure not working. They got promoted to the Prem under the old structure and have kept their spot in the top flight ever since. I don't see you mentioning Heaton Mersey 3 -17 Stockport. Stockport are class above and their dominance is freaky. If anything, the old structure made it harder to relegate teams from Prem 1 and meant that poor teams got to fight on another year!


1. yes but no where near as often not 3-4 per week every week
2. they may not have got prommoted as not good egnought to beat the A teams and would thefore be in a league more suited to them so it would have worked

i do not say the old structure is perfect just better than what we moved to that is all.

mersey stockport was a drubbing but that is why they are the top in the top division mersey have a poor start to the year i would not expect that score to be repeated.



You mis-understand. I am actually telling you that Sheffield Uni got promoted before there was a restructure. They proved themselevs better than the 1st and A teams of the old Division 2 and got promted to the premier division. The restructure then took place that summer but it didn't affect them as they were already up. They have then spent the following 2 seasons staying up on their own merit and proving themselves better than the teams in the relegation spots.

What I will also say again is that under the old structure the promotion and relegation spots were blocked by A teams so we would probably have seen some of the past seasons where perhaps the worst of Prem 1 would not have been relegated.

And just for the record, are you saying that drubbings don't count as a drubbing providing you think you could have done better on a different day? Oh in which case I've been getting it completely wrong, apologies. I didn't realsie that there were some drubbings that count and some that don't. They should perhaps add an extra column in the league tables for bonus points where teams feel they should have done better. Mersy for sure wouldn't be near the bottom of Prem 1 if that was the case. My bad.
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Re: League north structure

Postby the pom Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:27 am

young_trig wrote:And just for the record, are you saying that drubbings don't count as a drubbing providing you think you could have done better on a different day? Oh in which case I've been getting it completely wrong, apologies. I didn't realsie that there were some drubbings that count and some that don't. They should perhaps add an extra column in the league tables for bonus points where teams feel they should have done better. Mersy for sure wouldn't be near the bottom of Prem 1 if that was the case. My bad.



that is not a bad idea then some of the teams in prem 2 and 3 could come away with something from a week end.

trig could you please confirm you stance on my points bellow

Sheffield Steelers 23-1 Newcastle; Brooklands 26-1 Ashton; Hull 29-2 City of Stoke; Wilmslow A 22-0 Cheadle C; Timperly C 27-6 Brooklands B; Newcastle 0-16 Rochdale

I think drubbings that may affect your promotion are very very common in the current structure. this is only a couple of weeks in.

please confirm you think results like this are

1 good for the game
2 fun for anyone to play in
3 going to convince new teams to keep going out and getting hammered week in week out instead of in the occasional games that could possibly have ringers in it.
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: League north structure

Postby young_trig Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:13 am

the pom wrote:trig could you please confirm you stance on my points bellow

Sheffield Steelers 23-1 Newcastle; Brooklands 26-1 Ashton; Hull 29-2 City of Stoke; Wilmslow A 22-0 Cheadle C; Timperly C 27-6 Brooklands B; Newcastle 0-16 Rochdale

I think drubbings that may affect your promotion are very very common in the current structure. this is only a couple of weeks in.

please confirm you think results like this are

1 good for the game
2 fun for anyone to play in
3 going to convince new teams to keep going out and getting hammered week in week out instead of in the occasional games that could possibly have ringers in it.



Hull 29-2 City of Stoke - this has nothing to do with the structure. Hull have thus far not proved themselves good enough to escape the bottom tier of lacrosse (although they are getting close I would like to add). Stoke are a new team that have entered the bottom tier therfore this fixture would have probably taken place under the old structure anyway. I suppose you need to ask Stoke if they liked it but Hull used to be on the receiveing end of results like this when they first started.

Wilmslow A 22-0 Cheadle C - Wilsmlow were pretty poor last season and got relegated to the bottom tier and are now obviously an improved team. Cheadle C are a new team and its probably not suprising to see a clubs 4th team on the end of results like this. Again, i would have expected to see this match up under the old structure anyway.

Timperly C 27-6 Brooklands B These teams played each other in the same division last year and were involved with some pretty close results against each other. Therefore it appears you can put this result down to either Brooklands B are not as strong as last year, or Timperley C are stronger, or both. This happened under the old structure, especially on lower teams when you regularly found that clubs' lower teams would drastically change personnel from one season to another.

Newcastle 0-16 Rochdale and Sheffield Steelers 23-1 Newcastle - Newcastle posted some relatively close scores last season against the teams who had came down from the Prem. This year its perhaps fair to say that they are not as strong compared to the top teams and therefore we have seen these large scores. I know they were understrength at the the weekend against Steelers and therefore the large scoreline was probably expected.

Brooklands 26-1 Ashton Fair comment. Ashton asked not to get promoted this season as they knew these type of scorelines would happen. Brooklands are probably the best team in Prem 2 this year and Ashton openly admit they are not Prem 2 standard. Clubs were given the chance at the recent Forum meeting (SGM) to vote in a rule which stopped this happening in future years by stopping teams like Ashton getting promoted in the first place. The rule was not voted in.

Sorry to sound like a broken record but the old structure didn't work. New clubs often started up in the lowest league against B teams and C teams. The only games they got to play were away games because nobody would travel to them at their ground. The B team and C team mentallity were stifling development, something had to be done.
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Re: League north structure

Postby Phil Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:28 am

dalglish wrote:Get a Junior programme going, that is where the future starts.


I'm with this guy.

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Re: League north structure

Postby young_trig Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:38 am

dalglish wrote:Set the leagues and the structure will follow. New teams will know where they start. Whats the difference between this and other sports. If they have any ambition then thats great. Getting new teams to compete against established clubs will never happen. Lacrosse is unlike football or cricket, I maintain my point which people disagree with, you will not get any new team to compete against the established clubs with years of experience unless you bring over american/canadian talent. The only way is to start them young ( we can all come up with the odd exception so please don't go there). Get a Junior programme going, that is where the future starts. New teams start at the bottom, coach juniors from the age of 6 and have a long term plan.


Agree that a junior program is probably one of the best routes to long term success, but does not necssary guarantee it. For those clubs who do not have the man power or volunteers to run a junior section, then they have to think outside the box and do something different.

For example, being placed far enough away manchester that you become an attractive option to players who are at uni (but learnt as a junior) in that city and want to pick up NEMLA lax. There are also plenty of graduates around the north of the country who playing for manchester teams is no longer a viable option due to distance.

There are other options, but I agree that they will never claim the top-spot in Prem 1 without some long established talent that has come through the ranks (or recruited from other Prem 1 teams).
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Re: League north structure

Postby UKLacrosse Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:51 am

young_trig wrote:
Sorry to sound like a broken record but the old structure didn't work. New clubs often started up in the lowest league against B teams and C teams. The only games they got to play were away games because nobody would travel to them at their ground. The B team and C team mentallity were stifling development, something had to be done.


So what happened to the old policy that 'allowed' dispensations from the 'rules' e.g. I believe Steelers were entered into the old D3, when the club was first established? Cheadle Hulme were permitted to drop their 1st Team and reassign their A Team when they ran into problems.
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Re: League north structure

Postby Moaning Git Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:15 pm

Getting a junior development programme in place is a long term plan that should be undertaken where possible.

However, it takes time, commitment, and experience to run a successful programme often in the face of determined opposition from senior sections who want little to do with involvement with kids. And anyway it is only part of the answer. There are more students coming out from Uni having played lacrosse each year than are reaching senior lacrosse playing age from all the Junior teams in the country, so where are their exit routes? or do you simply dismiss them as not good enough?

Why do so many clubs experience such a huge drop off in youth players between the ages of 14 and 19? There are a variety of answers, but partly it is due to the failure of playing opportunities, or where they are given the opportunity the lack of support given by their senior programme. In some clubs I know there is little support and encouragement given to players who will not make "the grade", and so they drift away.

Every team competing in the league should have a qualified coach to be effective, how many don't? Part of a coaches role is to develop player skills potential, and experience, which is vital for improved and sustained performance, so how many clubs endorse and actively pursue that position?

Trig is right the old league system was failing new clubs, was designed to maintain the predominance of the few elite teams, and actively discouraged growth. The new system has its problems, mainly due to the lack of growth that was hoped for but not actively supported or encourgaged by league north, that is no reason to return to a system that was acting against the wider interests of the game.

How about some radical thinking and discussion. i have already muted development teams, as a way of gaining more teams in the prem. How about having a national agreement on the age at which you can play senior lacrosse? if it works in the south, why not consider it for the North? There are health and safety and child protection considerations (including full provision of referees for example) for sure, but the debate is worth having.

The skills and performance gap is realistically something that will just have to be lived with, and as I say will even out over time, or at least the powerhouse teams will change as they have in the past. In any case lets take a long term view of developing the sport and not just make knee jerk reastions to immediate problems.
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Re: League north structure

Postby the pom Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:53 pm

UKLacrosse wrote:
young_trig wrote:
Sorry to sound like a broken record but the old structure didn't work. New clubs often started up in the lowest league against B teams and C teams. The only games they got to play were away games because nobody would travel to them at their ground. The B team and C team mentallity were stifling development, something had to be done.


So what happened to the old policy that 'allowed' dispensations from the 'rules' e.g. I believe Steelers were entered into the old D3, when the club was first established? Cheadle Hulme were permitted to drop their 1st Team and reassign their A Team when they ran into problems.


the comon sense pragmatic approach was dropped infavour of being pedantic about the rules even when comon sense ditatets othwerwise.

for example ashton not being able to stay down a league.
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: League north structure

Postby young_trig Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:58 pm

the pom wrote:
the comon sense pragmatic approach was dropped infavour of being pedantic about the rules even when comon sense ditatets othwerwise.

for example ashton not being able to stay down a league.


...which would have meant Nottingham being forced to stay up who would probably have struggled just as much
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Re: League north structure

Postby Chilli Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:28 pm

Just a suggestion but ten years ago when SEMLA faced similar problems we tackled them with some 'revolutionary' ideas (at least in some people's eyes)
We removed the 13 man squad limit as it was losing players at clubs who couldn't get enough players for a second or third team and so the few extras went to other sports or packed it in.

Counter-intuitively it soon resulted in more teams being formed as those few extra players got better and clubs were able to attract more new and less experienced players.
Now Clubs still decide how many they want to play on their teams, but mostly they field around 13 to 15 per team in the Premiership.
Clubs that are recruiting well can ensure that everyone gets some game time.

I hear that Hillcroft's second team had 24 players the other week. of course, no one will get a lot of time on the field but the fun and experience will ensure that they will soon have a committed group for a third teams and so it goes.

With just 18 teams at the time, we were split into a couple of elite teams, (Hampstead and Purley), a few middling teams and a few weak teams.
Therefore since you only get better if you play regularly and against better opposition, with a view to evening up the standards over a few seasons, we introduced the 'point for turning up' to stop some clubs racking up enough points and picking and choosing when to play after the end of January and at the same time we introduced the 'ladder' system into the leagues.

This meant that the bottom half of a division played the top half of the lower division as well as the ones in their own division, the top half of the lower division therefore got experience of playing against teams who were better than them but not so much better than there was no benefit.
It worked for SEMLA as the combined measures soon brought more players in, created more clubs and teams, more equal teams and raised the overall standard. After (I think ) two or three seasons of the 'ladder' we were able to return to the standard league system.
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Re: League north structure

Postby the pom Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:24 pm

it does apear to have worked in the south
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: League north structure

Postby whopead Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:33 pm

young_trig wrote:
the pom wrote:
the comon sense pragmatic approach was dropped infavour of being pedantic about the rules even when comon sense ditatets othwerwise.

for example ashton not being able to stay down a league.
.

...which would have meant Nottingham being forced to stay up who would probably have struggled just as much



Ashton approached us and asked if we would stay up in their place. We as a club said no as we had just spent the season losing heavily/conceding games or having suprise results against Poynton. we would not have been stronger this year and wanted time to try to rebuild/stabilise. I sympathise with Ashton Situation but was not willing to sacrifice our club for another. Hopefully they will last the season and rebuild in prem 3
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Re: League north structure

Postby dalglish Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:52 pm

I agree with a lot of the points raised by this discussion. There is no easy answer. Mr Git is correct in that Stockport developed in the main over the last 30-40 years from the efforts of one man, I know how much work Mr Git puts in to try and maintain a junior programme which is not easy. The best games are always those which can go iether way right till the end or where a team takes a heavy lead and is clawed back, I know the players get more satisfaction from these types of games than iether giving or taking a "drubbing".
So the question is how do we get competetive games or make leagues competetive. The old league structure IMO provided more teams that were on a parr than the current system.
Rather than look at starting clubs from open age why not look at the junior development, get pop lacrosse leagues going, different age groups from 6 upwards, surely that would help develop the game in the long term by having junior clubs possibly unattached to those already established. I know from first hand experience of starting a football club at under 7's, until we had teams at every age group up to under 18's, now this club (from Poynton) have all ages, open age and are now a thriving amature
Get the interest going on a large scale, encourage primary schools ( I know this is being done Mr Git).
I also like the idea of extending the squads, why not have 15 man squads.
Lacrosse started in the North West in the 1800's, it didnt start with Juniors but the clubs that formed began their own Junior programmes to ensure longevity ( I presume).
Poynton, Timperley have good programmes, they are doing it to succeed and remain as lacrosse clubs and I'm sure they will have seasons when they are League or Flags winners.
The other point that Mr Git raised was teams turning out without a coach, when you come to Stockport and see KG, Ringo and Baggie on the side that's worth a few goals itself.
More coaches need to be trained to coach players if thats what you want, without coaching how can you compete against players who have been playing and handling a stick for years.
I will support any Junior programme as I have seen the fruits from my kids starting young, I have also tried to play late in life myself and was bloody useless, it would have been impossible to ever get to a level where I could hope to even train with the 1st team let alone play against them.
There isn't a quick fix, and whilst it would be good to get more teams to play, in all honesty what standard would they be, drubbings would be plentiful.
What we need is to identify and understand the standards teams are at and let them play against similar teams.
Take England, whilst being European champions cannot compete against the USA, Canada, we all know why, its a similar situation but on a smaller scale over here. Stockport and I suspect most prem teams train and practice, they are run as professionally as they can be with eveyone knowing what's expected.
It is a difficult problem to solve but I stick to my point that it is from Junior's that the game will grow and not from starting new adult teams.- Discuss
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Re: League north structure

Postby young_trig Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:15 pm

dalglish wrote:I agree with a lot of the points raised by this discussion. There is no easy answer. Mr Git is correct in that Stockport developed in the main over the last 30-40 years from the efforts of one man, I know how much work Mr Git puts in to try and maintain a junior programme which is not easy. The best games are always those which can go iether way right till the end or where a team takes a heavy lead and is clawed back, I know the players get more satisfaction from these types of games than iether giving or taking a "drubbing".
So the question is how do we get competetive games or make leagues competetive. The old league structure IMO provided more teams that were on a parr than the current system.
Rather than look at starting clubs from open age why not look at the junior development, get pop lacrosse leagues going, different age groups from 6 upwards, surely that would help develop the game in the long term by having junior clubs possibly unattached to those already established. I know from first hand experience of starting a football club at under 7's, until we had teams at every age group up to under 18's, now this club (from Poynton) have all ages, open age and are now a thriving amature
Get the interest going on a large scale, encourage primary schools ( I know this is being done Mr Git).
I also like the idea of extending the squads, why not have 15 man squads.
Lacrosse started in the North West in the 1800's, it didnt start with Juniors but the clubs that formed began their own Junior programmes to ensure longevity ( I presume).
Poynton, Timperley have good programmes, they are doing it to succeed and remain as lacrosse clubs and I'm sure they will have seasons when they are League or Flags winners.
The other point that Mr Git raised was teams turning out without a coach, when you come to Stockport and see KG, Ringo and Baggie on the side that's worth a few goals itself.
More coaches need to be trained to coach players if thats what you want, without coaching how can you compete against players who have been playing and handling a stick for years.
I will support any Junior programme as I have seen the fruits from my kids starting young, I have also tried to play late in life myself and was bloody useless, it would have been impossible to ever get to a level where I could hope to even train with the 1st team let alone play against them.
There isn't a quick fix, and whilst it would be good to get more teams to play, in all honesty what standard would they be, drubbings would be plentiful.
What we need is to identify and understand the standards teams are at and let them play against similar teams.
Take England, whilst being European champions cannot compete against the USA, Canada, we all know why, its a similar situation but on a smaller scale over here. Stockport and I suspect most prem teams train and practice, they are run as professionally as they can be with eveyone knowing what's expected.
It is a difficult problem to solve but I stick to my point that it is from Junior's that the game will grow and not from starting new adult teams.- Discuss


Nobody is saying that lacrosse doesn't grow from juniors but equally you can't deny the existence of players who learn to play later in life such as at university. I'm sure you wouldn't want to deny them the chance to continue playing just because they didn't learn lacrosse as a junior.

Junior programmes take a lot of work to set up and can only be done with enough volunteers with the time to dedicate. Those people are few and far between. In the meantime there are people in places far away from Manchester who want to play lacrosse. Do we stop then from forming teams and make them travel to a distant club near the m60 and tell then to try back in several years once the juniors are coming through?

Or do we start a new club out of those players and encourage other seniors to join in with them because there is a team that would happily accommodate them and then take it from there?
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Re: League north structure

Postby whopead Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:31 pm

Nottingham once had Juniors, however it folded as the closest team to play against was in Sheffield and all the other were in manchester. This meant there was little draw for parents who could have their kids play football and away games were 10 mins away!

There are a small group of people in Nottingham trying to start junior clubs to play against each other in the area...this is proving very difficult to get started and without parents getting on board will be impossible. The aim is to have junior field teams in three of the Nottingham boroughs (City, Gedling and Rushcliffe) for them to play each other then send a rep team to play games against the current junior clubs. whether this will work remains to be seen but that is the aim and hope it gets junior lacrosse off the ground in the East Midlands.
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Re: League north structure

Postby LivTeamJones26 Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:35 pm

dalglish wrote:It is a difficult problem to solve but I stick to my point that it is from Junior's that the game will grow and not from starting new adult teams.- Discuss


Bit difficult to start a juniors program without a club being in place first isn't it?

With the best will in the world I can't see how an amateur club can invest heavily in juniors programme to the point that they can create a Timperly J team or something.....

Obviously juniors is the best way to preserve a club, but it's not the all and end all for growth of the game.

Sustainable, cyclical growth = juniors

Geographical, diverse, and increased participation/exposure nationally = more clubs
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Re: League north structure

Postby gazmanofhull Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Dalglish, I think it is a bit chicken and egg.

You need a strong junior programme to ensure sustainability of a club, but you need an adult exit route to draw in the juniors and have that base of volunteers to get the juniors going.

If/When we have our junior programme up and running it will not be Autumn/Winter, it will be Spring/Summer. We are too far from Manchester to be a part of the junior league/cup programme. Also, in Hull there are two sports - Rugby League & Football - so its about offering something when those sports have stopped!

We did have a community programme, but it didn't pay enough to make a real living from it. Funding soon dried up and once the government changed school sport funding it was even harder to make money from it. We can't rely on the University for help in a community programme as they want Hull LC to fund EVERYTHING - all courses, CRBs, kit/equipment - before the students studying SPORTS COACHING will be put forward to be involved. The LEA's require Level 2 qualifications so we are talking a lot of money.

So for now, Hull LC will rely on developing new players coming to the game at a late age. Currently relying on members having kids to ensure a junior set-up!
Chairman & LDO, Hull Lacrosse Club
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dalglish
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Re: League north structure

Postby dalglish Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:48 am

I agree with Gazman, it is a chicken Egg situation. Start Junior leagues locally for lacrosse, football does it, rugby does it. It takes time and effort, or we can get adults to take up the sport late, I can guarantee that they wont compete against existing clubs and I wouldnt expect them to do so. If its social lacrosse then thats fine.
The league North need to promote the game and bring it to the attention of the public.
I've just watched the sky programme with friends and the fact that we have men and women's games with the same name always baffles me, same name different game, and I hear from someone that they think of lacrosse as a public school game tells it all.
There isn't any recognition whatsoever from the league North for winning any competition, I can't speak for the south. Can anyone who won a league or cup last year tell me any different. Apart from knowing youself that you have won a league or Flags etc who else in your area knows about it, it means diddly squat to anyone else.
Adult teams starting late will always get a drubbing, unfortunately thats the nature of the game, you don't just pick up a stick and become a good competent player overnight. I am all for additional clubs forming but fail to see how they will ever bridge the gap between established clubs.
I would love to see the game grow but the ELA need to have a strategy, if they have then it's clearly not having any effect on making new clubs.

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