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Moaning Git
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MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Moaning Git Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:11 pm

At the MPC meeting last night it was decided that the structure to be adopted in respect of the Mens game would be based around 5 Regions, NW/NE/Midlands/SE/SW. The role of the Regions would be to aid in the overall dvelopment of the sport and to support the ELA strategic operations.

There was a direction given that the existing NW County Associations should be wound up, and in Lancs and Cheshire work will begin on that shortly.

There was a very strong feeling expressed that County links were outdated and irrelevant to the modern game and should be scrapped. There was a strong response from Lancs and Cheshire that players wanted at least the Senior County fixture and the intention would be to retain this for the present but as a one off event.

More work has to be done in formalising the Regional set up and role, but this will be the template for future development and participation programmes. Reps for Lancs and Cheshire have agreed to arrange an open meeting to discuss ideas for activities and roles within the NW region, and to then wind up the current Associations.

""Just to be clear the discussion regards specific regions and how they might operate was limited to NW as the reps from the two counties were present. Changes in other regions were not discussed""
Last edited by Moaning Git on Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby young_trig Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:37 pm

What do you mean by wound up?
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Moaning Git Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Closed.

The situation is somewhat different for Yorkshire as you only have one County Association operating within the Region. Presumably you will simply call an AGM change the name of the County Association, and make any constitutional changes that need to be made. Theoretically I suppose you could retain a County Association but you would also have to form a Regional Association and that would not make sense.

In the Northwest, we have for example 2 bank accounts, 2 committees etc etc
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby UKLacrosse Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:15 pm

Blimey, that's a potential flash point .... many still hold to the three Ridings. Abolishing 'Yorkshire' for 'North East' might be unthinkable.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby LivTeamJones26 Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:16 pm

What happens if Yorkshire hold an AGM and vote NOT to change their name?

This restructure ruins my plans for a Merseyside team :'(
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby young_trig Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:25 pm

LivTeamJones26 wrote:What happens if Yorkshire hold an AGM and vote NOT to change their name?


I must admit I'm not a fan. When people say north-east it usually brings to mind Newcastle, Sunderland, Durham, etc.
I know that the reorganization is not intended to do away with the county representatational teams but is the thought that when it comes to things like the BNCs that we enter a team called North-east, or do we continue under Yorkshire?

I can see this getting complicated.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Sour37 Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:33 pm

I don't see why Cheshire and Lancashire must be "wound up" surely they can continue(!) to provide the "elite" playing structure within their areas of the New North West region - like the counties do in other sports.

Do Cheshire and Lancs' constitutions require an AGM for winding up?

Might influence whether it happens.

I must admit I'd much prefer to see the counties evolve rather than disappear.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Moaning Git Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:48 pm

First do not shoot the messenger! Please.....

MPC can instruct the Counties to change names or close down.

The reorganisation does not scupper a Merseyside team, in fact it might help you get one. When the Regional meeting is held make sure you attend.

I am told there are people who do not like being part of a Yorkshire Association when they are not from Yorkshire, so perhaps the Region should be called Yorkshire and the North East, I don't think MPC were being prescriptive on that, but it might be for example that the one Region might field more than one representative team for example Yorkshire and Tyneside. In the NW, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Tameside.

One of the reasons that Counties are now seen as redundant is that they are not part of the Elite Development Pathway.
To be very clear at the MPC meeting the only voices speaking in support of any form of County representation was the Lancs rep and the Cheshire rep. The NEMLA rep, Juniors and Schools rep, National Squads rep, and ELA fulltimers were all against retaining them in any form
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby LivTeamJones26 Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:08 pm

Moaning Git wrote:First do not shoot the messenger! Please.....


No shooting, just a friendly discussion of what this actually means. Promise.

Maybe it's just me, but if you change the BNC team names to regions it just doesn't sound right. It reminds me of when the ECB proposed a twenty20 league with teams like Manchester Marauders, London Rockstars etc etc... goes against the grain.

I can definitely see the point in merging the Northwest region into one bank account, committee etc etc, but you could still keep a Cheshire and Lancashire County team separate i would have thought. There are so many quality players out there that merging two catchment areas into one for the BNCs seems a bit crazy. If anything, we should be looking to create more teams, such as a lancs and cheshire development squad, with a focus on getting players outside of the 'big clubs'. The experience gained playing at the BNCs can only improve the quality of lacrosse across the region as a whole.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Moaning Git Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:32 pm

Nothing is agreed yet so don't take this as a set plan, but the County reps want exactly what you suggest for the BNC with an Elite team and one or more development teams and the BNC is part of the agreed ELA development programme.

There is simply no support in the ELA hierachy or amongst clubs for county teams, the support that Cheshire has had has come from individuals and from player networks. So we want to keep the Senior fixture if only for the tradition, and the social elements of the fixture, but we also want it to be a full game not the BNC format.

How a NW Region would organise teams for the BNCs would be up to the Region to decide.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby davidmcculloch81 Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:49 pm

Just after Lancashire got that really nice new kit from RadSheep too...
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby gazmanofhull Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:36 pm

I think you need to stop generalising Mr. Git.

Within the current set-up there is support for the county organisations of Yorkshire & South from the clubs. The South is obviously a seperate case as it does a lot more than any other. But as you have said previously, Yorkshire proves there is a place for a county organisation.

I am surprised that people have said they do not like being a part of Yorkshire as they are not in Yorkshire. It's not as if that branding can affect a club in any way and not as if being a part of Yorkshire has a negative affect on a clubs abilities to operate.

I think its a load of rubbish that the current structure cannot fit into an Elite structure. If people want it to, it can. In most other sports - NOT football or golf - the county structure is an integral part of developing the elite. Even in the era of professional rugby union, the England Counties squad are still formed every year from amatuer players and tour internationally developing players who do go on to represent the full national squads - Eng Senior, Under 20s, Sevens and other Home Nations. They also help to develop future coaches.

If the ELA wanted to develop an Elite level - between club & country - then it could do with little fuss and without the need for re-organisation.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Daveyoc Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:08 am

Bad Idea.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Waggy Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:43 am

I normally try to stay out of these ill informed discussions however here goes, no one is saying that Yorkshire cannot exist, in fact if the NW were to form in many ways it would be following the model set by Yorkshire of helping new clubs to develop etc.

Yorkshire is a regional association already, last time I looked Newcastle and Durham were not in Yorkshire and when I played for the county it was through affiliate of my college in Crewe, Yorkshire works across county line and covers the east region of the country if it want to be called Yorkshire so what, call a bus a limo and doen't mean its not a bus!

If lancs and Cheshire become the NW then they will still organise representative lacrosse, that may be as the existing county it also might be something else, based on what is best for the players and competition at the Time.

No one has come up with a reason not to change and having spent the last 10 year struggling to get support as a county I can come up with lots to try a new way.

Are people worried that a northwest team would dominate the BNC's. That won't happen for a while until it has enough money to buy a new kit anyway, so the red and black strips will be around for a while yet. :D

I hope you all Continue to talk about this but please do so in a way that helps the game develope and is based on the facts.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Moaning Git Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:49 am

I think you need to stop generalising Mr. Git.


Gazman, First of all try and remember that the two lonely voices raised on Tuesday in support of retaining any vestige of the Counties were mine and Richard; further I am not generalising, I am reporting what was stated at MPC, and that includes the comments re not wanting to compete as Yorkshire. I repeat, do not shoot the messenger.

If you want to express your opinion to either the Yorkshire rep, or the NEMLA rep so they can contribute to the debate in favour of your view then get on with it that is what they are there for. The Yorkshire rep was unable to take part in Tuesdays meeting but has not contributed much on this subject in this seasons meetings, and the NEMLA rep was for totally scrapping counties all together so how much lobbying have you and your club done regarding this issue?

Anyway the decision was taken on Tuesday and that is that so its a little late to restart the debate.

And as I have already said Regions will decide just how, and under what name and in what strip they play representative lacrosse, except you have to remember that the BNCs for example is an ELA event and the MPC can decide who is invited to compete.

Richard and I are going to have our hands full sorting out issues in the NW, so excuse me if I leave other regions to sort out their own problems now you know what has been decided!
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby Waggy Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:46 am

Daveyoc wrote:Bad Idea.


Why?
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby UKLaxfan Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:13 pm

MPC can instruct the Counties to change names or close down.


I have a huge problem with this statement :shock:

Who instructs the MPC? :roll:

Who are the MPC Reps (except Mr G who shares info)?

Surely the Players & Clubs should be involved in decision making process.

The Player's Forum
is an absolute JOKE as discussed previously -

THERE ARE NO PLAYERS WHO ATTEND PLAYERS FORUM

it is a MANDATORY MEETING

where old men attend so their Clubs don't get fined (it's more like a Darby & Joan Club than Player's forum)

all that's missing is some free cups of tea and some young nurses running around with warm blankets to keep the old duffers warm.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby young_trig Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:29 pm

Moaning Git wrote:
I think you need to stop generalising Mr. Git.


Gazman, First of all try and remember that the two lonely voices raised on Tuesday in support of retaining any vestige of the Counties were mine and Richard; further I am not generalising, I am reporting what was stated at MPC, and that includes the comments re not wanting to compete as Yorkshire. I repeat, do not shoot the messenger.

If you want to express your opinion to either the Yorkshire rep, or the NEMLA rep so they can contribute to the debate in favour of your view then get on with it that is what they are there for. The Yorkshire rep was unable to take part in Tuesdays meeting but has not contributed much on this subject in this seasons meetings, and the NEMLA rep was for totally scrapping counties all together so how much lobbying have you and your club done regarding this issue?


I'll try and formulate a response in good time, but have a bit to do. For the record though, I've attempted to join both the last 2 meetings but the audio facilities have not been in place. In January I sat on the phone for an hour listening to the holding music, but nobody had told me that the audio facilities were unavailable. We have been speaking with the representatives of the MPC and are aware of what is expected of the counties and regions.
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby the pom Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:49 pm

who is the nenla rep?
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: MPC, Regions, Counties!

Postby the pom Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:18 pm

Just so I understand

There are not enough people who are prepared to put in the time to run Cheshire and Lancashire.

The proposal is that the few people who are prepared to put in the time are going to join together and form the northwest association to pool resources.

The plan is to still have Cheshire and lancs being put out as two sides?
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012

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