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Lacrosse at the Olympics!

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DannyB
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Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby DannyB Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:34 pm

Sorry, not a late U-turn by the 2012 organising committee. But I am researching an article on the 1948 Olympics which featured England v USA (represented by the undefeated Renselar Polytechnic Institute) at Wembley Stadium. The game finished 5-5 and I have a report of the match.
I'd like more detail on the players from the team - featuring seven Waconians, which was as follows - most of you should prepare for some strange terminology!

Goal H. Wyatt
Point J. Foy
Cover Point G. Gleave (Old Wacs)
3rd Man J Whitehead (Old Wacs)
L Wing Def B. Makin (Old Wacs)
R Wing Def A. Dennis (Old Hulmeians)
Centre H. Prime
L Wing Attack R. Whittaker (Old Wacs)
R Wing Attack J. Buckland (Old Hulmeians)
3rd Home R. Renshaw (Old Wacs)
2nd Home J. Little
1st Home R. Wilson (Old Wacs)
Subs: H. Ginn (Old Wacs); R Zimmerman; J Griffiths; N. Coe, J. Swindells, J Sizmur
Goal Umpire: F. Ewan
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green
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby green Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:51 pm

Try Alan Boyle who is the main man at Manchester Waconians Lacrosse Club. It is our club centenary season 2011-2012, he may be able to help you out. I had the pleasure of meeting two of the names on your team sheet a number of years ago.
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UKLaxfan
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby UKLaxfan Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:56 pm

Is J Whitehead any relation to Keith Whitehead who ran the games promotion when the Flags Final was at Wacs?

a long with his son Neil "Lotus" Whitehead who played at Sheffield University & Wacs
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dblacklock
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby dblacklock Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:42 pm

Any infomation on the Umpire would be great.

Amazing though, 64 years later and games are sometimes still umpired with one official here in Englandl!!!
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby davewilliams Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:53 am

dblacklock wrote:Amazing though, 64 years later and games are sometimes still umpired with one official here in Englandl!!!

The list reads as though the Goal Umpire was an official provided by the England/Wacs/Hulmians team. Perhaps the USA team provided a GU as well.

ps Peter Munday's the man to shine some light on this.
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rpowell
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby rpowell Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:53 pm

davewilliams wrote:
dblacklock wrote:Amazing though, 64 years later and games are sometimes still umpired with one official here in Englandl!!!

The list reads as though the Goal Umpire was an official provided by the England/Wacs/Hulmians team. Perhaps the USA team provided a GU as well.

Yep... there were two Goal Umpires, plus a Referee. So three on-field officials in total.

Extract from the Laws of Lacrosse, "fair-use" reproduction from book "Lacrosse" by H. E. Davies , 1929

"VIII - The Umpires

Sec 1 - There must be only one umpire at each goal. They shall stand behind the posts and shall not change ends during a match. No person shall be allowed to speak to them, or in any way distract their attention.

Sec 2 - In the event of a goal being claimed, the Umpire at the goal shall at once decide whether or not the ball has by fair means passed through the goal space his decision being simply "Goal" or "No Goal without comment of any kind. His decision shall be final.

Sec 3 - If the Umpire observe any infringement of Law X, Sec. 13, he shall notify the referee in such manner as the latter shall direct. the decision of each Umpire at his owwn goal shall be final inthis matter"

Law X Sec 13 is about not being in the crease until the ball is in the crease, at which point it all probably went a bit crazy :)
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davewilliams
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby davewilliams Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:23 pm

rpowell wrote:Sec 3 - If the Umpire observe any infringement of Law X, Sec. 13, he shall notify the referee in such manner as the latter shall direct. the decision of each Umpire at his own goal shall be final inthis matter"
(Law XSec 13 is about not being in the crease until the ball is in the crease, at which point it all probably went a bit crazy :)


Ahh the days when you could force the goalkeeper in possession of the ball into the goal. No namby-pamby crease protection then.
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rpowell
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby rpowell Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:47 pm

DannyB wrote:I am researching an article on the 1948 Olympics which featured England v USA (represented by the undefeated Renselar Polytechnic Institute) at Wembley Stadium...

I'll match your Olympics, and raise you 40 years of history :)
Here's both sides for the 1908 Olympic Games, including the team they played for.

UK/GB/whatever were represented by England:

R. G. Martin (Catford)
J. Parker Smith (South Manchester)
G. H. Buckland (Old Hulmeians)
E. Dutton (Albert Park)
G. Alexander (Eccles)
C. H. Scott (West London)
E. T. Jones (West London)
H. W. Ramsay (Woodford) Captain
G. Mason (Stockport)
N. H. P. Whitely (South Manchester)
S. Hayes (Stockport)
W.A. Johnson (Oxford University)
plus
Mr A Norris (Referee)

Canada were:

E. Hamilton (Shamrock)
Dr G. H. Campbell (Orangeville)
F. J. Dixon (St. Catherine's)
A. T. Turnbull (New Westminster)
J. Dackett (Nationals)
C. D. McKerrow (Montreal)
G. H. Rennie (New Westminster)
J. Broderick (Cornwall)
H. Hoobin (Shamrock)
A. F. Dillon (Shamrock)
P. Brennan (Shamrock) Captain
T. Gorman (Capitol)
plus
Mr. H. H. Allingham (Goal Judge)
Mr. A. Norris (Referee)

Score was 14-10 to Canada.
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DannyB
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby DannyB Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:53 am

Great info, thanks. Would be interesting to find out what happened to those teams like West London and Albert Park!
I'm getting quite a bit together on 48 now with some good input from the States as well, but keep it coming!
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby UKLaxfan Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:32 am

Danny B,

There is a digital archive that the LA 84 games put together, that has all their olympic reports & periodicals in 300K+

http://search.la84foundation.org/search ... 3CHOME/%3E

it may help your search
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby davewilliams Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:24 pm

rpowell wrote:I'll match your Olympics, and raise you 40 years of history :)
Here's both sides for the 1908 Olympic Games, including the team they played for.
UK/GB/whatever were represented by:
H. W. Ramsay (Woodford) Captain

Brilliant. Notice there's always a Buckland present?
The Captain played for one of the Clubs (Woodford&RodingValley) which combined in 1912 to form Buckhurst Hill.
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Harry Collins
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby Harry Collins Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:08 pm

DannyB wrote:Subs: H. Ginn (Old Wacs); R Zimmerman; J Griffiths; N. Coe, J. Swindells, J Sizmur
Goal Umpire: F. Ewan


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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby rpowell Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:41 pm

Harry Collins wrote:
DannyB wrote:Subs: H. Ginn (Old Wacs); R Zimmerman; J Griffiths; N. Coe, J. Swindells, J Sizmur
Goal Umpire: F. Ewan


Bob Dylan!! (age 7)

Vague recollections there used to be a SEMLA VP or honorary VP called Zimmerman - maybe a relation?
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Re: Lacrosse at the Olympics!

Postby davewilliams Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:17 pm

rpowell wrote:R Zimmerman

Vague recollections there used to be a SEMLA VP or honorary VP called Zimmerman - maybe a relation?[/quote]

Same, the one and only, Zimmerman, says Peter Munday.
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