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FarmerDan
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Sticks

Postby FarmerDan Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:33 am

I was just wondering if there is a written rule that all players have to use ladies sticks (or as we call them at soton-mixed sticks). I personally think it is better than having some mens sticks on the pitch as it puts all players on a level pegging. But i know many people disagree with me here.
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Tom_Southampton
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Postby Tom_Southampton Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:03 am

see threads passim Re: sticks

i think seeing as there is not a lot of formal rules on the subject of mixed lacrosse it is down to the league you play in
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Ash
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Postby Ash Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:17 pm

nah as a former champion of men's sticks i believe using womens sticks is correct, as it levels the playing field. However (before spamdy gets excited) its the rules i believe are wrong. A lot of the rules in mixed lacrosse were ONLY created with mens sticks in mind rather than to create an exciting new game:

1. No checking was introduced becuase with men's sticks it would be pretty much impossible to dislodge the ball from a men's stick safely when not protected by kit. The argument about men taking checking to far is not that valid, with out mens sticks the rule would have read something along the lines of "you may only check downwards on an opponents stick whilst keeping two hands on your stick at all times (ie no wrap checking), tackling may only occur on the head of a stick, any tackle deemed dangerous will count as a foul"

2. The 4 second rule was introduced as a direct result of no checking, otherwise you would never have changes in possession. Annoyingly this rule places the emphasis of the game on mistakes rather than skill.

3. No shooting through people: direct result of mens sticks being allowed in the game. (though i am not neccessarily saying this is a bad rule, just saying it is a consequence of other rules.)

In my opinion mixed lacrosse should be full womens rules only (perhaps with a couple of very minor alterations, eg the shooting through rule if deemed necessary and tightening of the checking rule), with half the players male and everyone uses womens sticks.
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mandy
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Postby mandy Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:51 pm

well 3 certainly isn't as a result of mens sticks being used - its as a result of wearing no padding - its the same ruling in ladies, so would be in the rules no matter what

i'm still unsure on the checking - having played it in training a few weeks back with the more experienced blokes using ladies sticks (lack of sticks to have everyone) and playing to ladies rules, there was a stupid amount of dangerous play and checking (esp towards the head), and i have to say most it was from the blokes and not necessarily the inexperienced ones either

and point two - what 4 second rule? there isn't one - there is a five second rule - i can only assume you're referring to that (or maybe even the 3 second ruling in the defensive fan)

i'm all for ladies sticks, but think the five (thats five not four) second rule and no checking should stay in place (certainly for the first season or two - maybe review it after that time). i don't think it will happen though cos of teams not having enough ladies sticks/creating a divide between the sports etc...

and ash are you suggesting you'd allow shooting through? :oops: have you ever read the ladies rules on checking? - i think this is as good an indicator of why it should remain non-contact as any - apparently not enough people know the rules!

to answer dan's initial question - no no rule - i believe a mixed rule book is being written, but the main leagues (well those i know about) all allow 6 mens sticks on a pitch at a time, but some tournaments such as the barnet one and more famously Dublin enforce the use of ladies sticks
ahhh ... the whit
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Postby Ash Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:09 pm

On the 4 seconds/5 second thing, apparently the league we are joining plays four seconds according to our captain. I had always played 5 seconds too.

Nah i wouldn't allow shooting through, either as i said its not a bad rule!
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Ally
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Postby Ally Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:16 pm

In our london mixed league we play womens rules (expect that men are allowed to play of course) and it works really well!
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Postby Ash Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:48 pm

vive la revolution
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Tom_Southampton
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Postby Tom_Southampton Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:29 pm

to my mind, without checking mixed feels a little contrived, ladies sticks and ladies style checking and no 5 second rule seems like a much more natural thing to me. however i can't see regular men's players being sufficiently controlled in their checks to play ladies rules. Maybe people who only play mixed would learn it but i doubt others would be able to switch between men s style (belt them round the hands after a massive windup) and ladies style checking

Have we established that there is no hard and fast rule on the subject?
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Whitey
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Postby Whitey Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:23 pm

If a men's player is any good with a ladies stick, without a 5 second rule, they would score everytime using ladies rules.

If you are going to have checking, I think the 5 second rule should remain.
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Postby Ian#4 Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:35 pm

Yeah, we found that if a guy just runs one handed, fast, they can make their way down the pitch fairly easily. With good D, I hope they wouldn't score every time, but who knows.
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Postby G-DoGg Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:38 am

That sounds like how you play mixed funnily enough mr furlong!!! :lol:
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Postby Ian#4 Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:57 pm

I can't quite make the whole pitch in 5 seconds!
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Postby Ally Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:25 pm

In womens rules send offs are much more permanent, so repeated uncontrolled checks WILL result in a whole match send off. No matter how good the mens player is, if he gets sent off he losses the match for his team. Guys soon learn how to play womens rules!
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Postby Whitey Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:35 am

Isn't the key to mixed lacrosse to remember it's just a bit of a laugh, anyone taking the game too seriously is missing the point of mixed lacrosse (and they are normally the ones who don't want to play proper lacrosse). Therefore, the no contact, 5 second rule seems like the only way to play, preferably with womens sticks. It stops the over-enthusiastic, and allows all players to get involved.
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Postby Ian#4 Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:41 pm

Whitey wrote:Isn't the key to mixed lacrosse to remember it's just a bit of a laugh, anyone taking the game too seriously is missing the point of mixed lacrosse (and they are normally the ones who don't want to play proper lacrosse). Therefore, the no contact, 5 second rule seems like the only way to play, preferably with womens sticks. It stops the over-enthusiastic, and allows all players to get involved.


Very good point, the rules work fine for us in Cardiff so why change them. I am for all using ladies sticks, but I undertand the agruements for and against, and frankly I don't care that much! If you want to play a more intense game get into ladies or mens. Mixed is a fun sport to get people involved in lacrosse, so lets keep it that way.

Also (rightly or wrongly) people will sometimes play when a little drunk. Adding checking into the game could lead to problems.
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Postby G-DoGg Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:45 pm

i think every mixed game i have played is played in a drunken/hungover state. Changing the rules we play in cardiff could lead to injuries and complications. Mixed, i agree with ian, is a fun and social game. Also anyone who moans about using a womens stick only does so because they haven't got the skills to use one.
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Postby cjlax Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:21 am

oh oho! - You guys just said the dreded words! - MIXED IS A LAUGH and social! - You do realise that comments like that are going to push some mixed fanatics to the edge of sanity, especially at such a great time as Christmas.

I think we should put a warning on threads like these......

WARNING: DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE A MIXED FANATIC, READING MAY RESULT IN SELF INFLICTION OF HARM.

we also need a disclaimer....

THE FORUM WILL NOT ACCEPT LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY LOSS OF LIFE (be that self inflicted mix fanatics, or reprisal attacks on others) AS A RESULT OF READING SUCH A THREAD> THANK YOU!
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Postby Sour37 Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:13 pm

to be honest....mixed is a laugh, and a good excuse for a lash up with the ladies....

BUT

I do think it has a serious place in player development, It's a much simpler game for newbies to pick up...mainly because no one really knows or plays to the rules

Villan i may be, slightly drunk from last night still possibly...but that's my opinion
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Postby Tom_Southampton Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:58 pm

thought I'd try and get the great stick debate pros and cons sorted out
Pros (of using men's sticks)
if you buy the thing you can use it for mens
certain men's players kick up a fuss about using anything else


Cons (of using mens sticks)
encourages poor fundamentals (primarily 'soft hands')
allows dangerously hard passes and shots to be easily carried out
checking is not realistic- with an appropriately strung mens stick it would be almost impossible to remove the ball with ladies style checking

Pros (of using ladies sticks)
everyone plays with the same stick
encourages good fundamentals
incredibly easy to catch when you switch to a mens stick
game is more 'natural' rather than feeling a bit contrived

and the answer to it all:
surely its supposed to be fun- so why worry too much, however I do think that the rulebook (when written) needs to be implemented country wide, with ALL tournaments and leagues clearly following the rules WHATEVER they are. if we want mixed to grow as a social and fun way of playing lacrosse, developing players and as a competative sport where men compete with ladies (which is rare) then it needs to have proper rules
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Postby lacrossechick214 Sun May 20, 2007 8:52 pm

I thought seeing as there were no females in this debate i thought i might have a stab.

I loved mixed its totally different from any of the sports i have played before and is a right laugh!

I personally think that it should be played with women's sticks and as a captain i always ask other teams to play with women's.... I have found that teams who do play with men's stick us poor ladies dont get a look in. You men will end up playing amoungst yourselves, but also you can do far more with a men's then a women's stick making it impossible to keep up of get near the ball!!

If you brought checking into a mixed game (suggesting everyone is playing with mixed and by women's rules) im not the biggest person in the world, or the strongest and have had a men check my before! it HURTS! i had an interesting flying lesson once as well! it doesn't work! men will always be stronger giving us poor ladies no chance... (ok some poor ladies!)

The 5 second rule works as long as there is a understand ref, and you pratice... I do think that no skill is lost, more skill is gained! you learn to control the stick more and game play! Pressure is a good thing, makes you work harder!!

xx :lol:
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