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Moaning Git
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Take Outs

Postby Moaning Git Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:04 am

This was a subject of debate at the NEMLA Players Forum. Can someone explain what the situation is in the South. Are take outs allowed in all games, leagues, age groups?
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Postby Blind Zebra Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:22 am

Yes.

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Postby checkley00 Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:44 am

I don't recall playing in a game when this has been the case but I know of games being "no take out" games when younger players are involved... to a mixed recpetion if I remember correctly. Sure someone else could shed more light on this though.
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Postby Ash Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:19 pm

From my (probably ropey) memory of the rules all games are full take out matches.

Back about 4 years ago when there was a ladder based league, i seem to recall the bottom division was no take outs, but that got scrapped when it went to the divisional region format. (all games involving under 16 were also no take out back then i think- but i believe that went with the dispensation system)

For accurate checking though bye-laws/constitution etc are are on the SEMLA website:

http://www.southlacrosse.org.uk/regs/byelaws.html
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Moaning Git
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Postby Moaning Git Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:24 pm

NEMLA operate a No take Out Dispensation request annually, so there are no take outs in leagues 3,4 or 5. There is a debate now about whether this dispensation request should be scrapped. This is a debate for NEMLA clubs, but I asked what the position was in the South ( I am simple enough to believe the same rules and approach shold apply throughout the country) and was told by a NEMLA Member that the situation was the same in the South. I did not think this was so, as I do not recall a request for dispensation being received by MPC from SEMLA in recent years, hence the question.
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Postby Uggy21 Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:32 pm

In the south, there is only Prem, Div 1 and Div 2...
therefore take outs allowed.
I havent heard anything about this in the South
Only about juniors and no take outs.
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Postby dom#10 Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:16 pm

For U16s, dispensation is required to play in any mens match - for SEMLA that is anyway (i dont know for NEMLA).

And in all juniors games that i have played in take outs have also been allowed. :D
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Postby Mr.Stanford Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 pm

Back in the day if you were in the lower divisions and you had old/young/female players on your team your could request 'no take outs'. However this hasn't been the case for a few seasons. As has been mentioned before take outs are allowed at all levels of the senior game.
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Postby hooters86 Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:48 pm

What I dont understand, is that they are allowed in U16's and U19's, but not div 3, 4 or 5.
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Re:

Postby dom#10 Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:05 pm

hooters86 wrote:What I dont understand, is that they are allowed in U16's and U19's, but not div 3, 4 or 5.


Take outs were allowed in u16s SEMLA matchs so thats probably why the changes in rules come about, between SEMLA and NEMLA.
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Postby ibop Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:06 pm

Playing BUCS on a wednesday and Div 5 on a sat it is really obvious why the rule exists. When a uni student gets hit, even straight through the back, they get straight back up and carry on. Some of the extremely skilled players who move down the leagues later on in their carears don't bounce any more. when they get hit,they stay hit. Secondly, the lack of referees makes it far harder to ensure the saftey of players as dangerous hits are less likely to be seen. In my opinion, it is invaluable that the older skilled stay in the game to pass on the skills and the way they think the game. If the rule were to be removed a number of them would be lost. That said, it could help the referee shortage.
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Postby chindle Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:50 pm

hooters86 wrote:What I dont understand, is that they are allowed in U16's and U19's, but not div 3, 4 or 5.


Perhaps its because when an U16 hits another U16 (of similar size and weight) it isn't as dangerous as a 30-odd year old hitting a U16/U19 who might be considerably lighter/smaller...
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Postby whopead Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:43 pm

Or the other way round! im 25 and there are a lot of 16-19 year olds larger and heavier than me. I think take outs should be rolled down another division or two. As long as players can be taught how to do it properly!
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Re:

Postby Mr.Stanford Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:54 pm

whopead wrote:Or the other way round! im 25 and there are a lot of 16-19 year olds larger and heavier than me. I think take outs should be rolled down another division or two. As long as players can be taught how to do it properly!


i can see it now!

take out tests! licences!... and there would be a lot of players taking out over the limit on a saturday
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Postby Moaning Git Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:02 pm

For what it is worth my own opinion is that take outs should be played at all levels, except U12 where the disparity of age and size is so marked. having played in various competitions with full take out, and against some very good players, and suffered some pretty solid hits that caused an amount of pain, I find this preferable to playing in a no take out game, and finding myself smashed into the ground by someone who "forgot".

That said, I also believe that there should be no take outs in matches that are not refereed by qualified officials, and at least two of them, so both on the ball and off the ball action can be policed.

So maybe there should not be a blanket dispensation, take outs could be played if both teams agree, and if the match is refereed sufficiently?
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Postby UKLacrosse Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:04 pm

Its always baffled me why we expect 16 year-olds playing U16's on a Saturday morning to cope with 'take-outs allowed', then play a lower division NEMLA in the afternoon, where 'no take-outs allowed' then play U19's on a Sunday, where 'take-outs are allowed'. No wonder they get wound up trying to cope with it! Then again, I read a renowned contributor to this forum claiming on a US forums that we don't play take-outs in junior lacrosse over here!! Its so confusing for a humble spectator to understand the game and the rules!!
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Postby Waggy Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:15 pm

is it true that the takeout is a danger, but we allow someone with no coordination to wave a six foot pole around?
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take outs

Postby Who Me ! Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:13 pm

Moaning Git is quite right on the aspect of having 2 qualified (Basic Qualified in every game) before you can even consider having take outs.

If you dont have experienced referees, who know to watch the late after the shot hits whilst trusting his on field partner to watch for the goal then someone is going to be on the floor who may be screaming the hit was in some way illegal and could be hurt.

The key element is having qualified referees who through experience, understand the ethos and integrity of the game and who know what is a good or bad hit.

Long term for the good of the game we need consistancy so that all players can play in a hard but fair and safe manner and to this extent ,then all the clubs must understand the need to have all referees qualified.

Its no good in a take out game throwing a new referee who has no experience or qualification in to this game if we continue doing this then someone is seriously going to get hurt.
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Re: take outs

Postby kjk20 Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:51 pm

Who Me ! wrote:Moaning Git is quite right on the aspect of having 2 qualified (Basic Qualified in every game) before you can even consider having take outs.

If you dont have experienced referees, who know to watch the late after the shot hits whilst trusting his on field partner to watch for the goal then someone is going to be on the floor who may be screaming the hit was in some way illegal and could be hurt.

The key element is having qualified referees who through experience, understand the ethos and integrity of the game and who know what is a good or bad hit.

Long term for the good of the game we need consistancy so that all players can play in a hard but fair and safe manner and to this extent ,then all the clubs must understand the need to have all referees qualified.

Its no good in a take out game throwing a new referee who has no experience or qualification in to this game if we continue doing this then someone is seriously going to get hurt.


Late hit has nothing to do with a take out. Late hit = illegal bodycheck, I just think it's odd that the English rules have the take out and the body check, whereas in the international rules you just have body checks... So you're essentially saying that you can't have a game without 2 refs.
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Re: take outs

Postby Dave@Reading Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:36 pm

kjk20 wrote:
Who Me ! wrote:Moaning Git is quite right on the aspect of having 2 qualified (Basic Qualified in every game) before you can even consider having take outs.

If you dont have experienced referees, who know to watch the late after the shot hits whilst trusting his on field partner to watch for the goal then someone is going to be on the floor who may be screaming the hit was in some way illegal and could be hurt.

The key element is having qualified referees who through experience, understand the ethos and integrity of the game and who know what is a good or bad hit.

Long term for the good of the game we need consistancy so that all players can play in a hard but fair and safe manner and to this extent ,then all the clubs must understand the need to have all referees qualified.

Its no good in a take out game throwing a new referee who has no experience or qualification in to this game if we continue doing this then someone is seriously going to get hurt.


Late hit has nothing to do with a take out. Late hit = illegal bodycheck, I just think it's odd that the English rules have the take out and the body check, whereas in the international rules you just have body checks... So you're essentially saying that you can't have a game without 2 refs.


This would mean that only 5 or 6 games could be played in the south each saturday!!! I think this kind of debate still shows the big divide/ difference between lacrosse in the south and north (sorry i had to mention it). Being that very few games down south are reffered by more then one ref. Despite the bug push for referees and great work done by those that are around.

Are all games / the majority of the games up north played with more then one referee?

Dave
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