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Hidden Ball trick

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lax_mad_webborn
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Hidden Ball trick

Postby lax_mad_webborn Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:37 pm

I know some are allowed but unsure if this one is?

Red vs. Blue.

Red get the ball and call a time out.
After time out ref calls which player has the ball to the keeper. Play resumes.
Red puts the ball on the floor.
All red players go for the ball on the floor "faking scooping the ball" one player picks it up and takes it.
All red players are going towards the goal.

Is this allowed because the ref said where the ball was and it is now on the floor?

Or not allowed.

Thanks.
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webby
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby webby Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:52 pm

No foul. According to your scenario play had resumed.
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Chilli
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Chilli Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:35 am

There are videos of variants of this trick on YouTube, the middies and attack go into a huddle and then all charge to the goal, defence is bamboozled and goalie doesn't know where the shot will come from.

If it happened in a recent game, it'll be because someone saw it on YouTube and fancied trying it out, did it work?
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby lax_mad_webborn Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:38 am

Nah. One of the opposite team ran through one of our players back screaming they can't do that!
So we got the ball back anyway.
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LacrosseRob
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby LacrosseRob Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:38 pm

It's legal as far as I know but I've seen it stopped by one defending player going towards the huddle and when they broke they got called for moving picks as they ran into him.
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby jsgi Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:45 pm

You can't start in a huddle, your own team as well as the opposition have to be 5 yards away.

Borderline unsportsmanlike in my view but probably legal by the word of the law if you huddle up in open play.
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Zlaxbrah Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:25 pm

I think that the hidden ball trick should defidently be allowed!
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Smitho91
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Smitho91 Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:07 pm

With the hidden ball trick, what rules must the D follow with regards to playing an opponent without the ball, surely if they thing the opponent has the ball they may go in for a hit, but outside of the 9 feet allowance.
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laxambition
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby laxambition Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:24 pm

Smitho91 wrote:With the hidden ball trick, what rules must the D follow with regards to playing an opponent without the ball, surely if they thing the opponent has the ball they may go in for a hit, but outside of the 9 feet allowance.


Touch a player without the ball and it's interference at best, moving up through slash and illegal body check as things develop.

But that assumes that the ref knows who has the ball
The opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not necessarily represent Reading Wildcats Lacrosse Club, SEMLA or, indeed, anybody else......but that doesn't mean that it's not what they're all thinking!
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jameskellam
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby jameskellam Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:13 am

It's not necessarily interference to make contact with an opponent who doesn't have the ball. All you have to do is allow your opponent to move freely. The rule is reproduced below.
RULE 52
INTERFERENCE
52.1
A player may not interfere in any manner with an opponent in an attempt to keep him from a loose ball
except when both are within 9 feet (
2.74 metres) of such loose ball.
52.2
A player may not, by the use of his body or his crosse, interfere with a player who is in pursuit of an
opponent who has possession of the ball.
52.3
A player may not guard an opponent so closely as to prevent the o
pponent’s free movement when the
opponent is not in possession of the ball.
52.4
Nothing in this rule is intended to prohibit a legal offensive pick.

An actual check to an empty stick is illegal.
A defensive player does not commit a foul just because an attacker who does not have the ball moves into his path (if he prevents the defensive player getting at the ball carrier the offensive player commits a foul).
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Moaning Git Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:38 pm

I am not sure that i follow this thread. The hidden ball trick, star burst etc is legal and is not unsportsmanlike conduct or anywhere near it.

Checks laid on a non ball carrier are fouls, but if a player is acting as decoy and draws such a check I would not flag it, so long as the check was not a slash, but I would tell the checking plaayer the ball is not there ..... if I was aware of the fact.

If I had been fooled by the play myself I would not flag it anyway for check to the stick as I would think it was legal.

If any decoy player started to whine about being checked while pretending to carry the ball I would be tempted to flag them for unsportsmanlike conduct and being a total wuss!
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laxambition
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby laxambition Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:26 pm

James - I was being rather in-exact with my language in saying "touch" a player

but I would suggest that any defender who falls for a hidden ball trick but does not do enough to at least earn an interefence call is not doing his job properly on an attacker who he *thinks* is driving to goal

I am in agreement with MG in that a player running as decoy should expect to receive attention as if he does have the ball and as long as a stick-check would not be a slash if the attacker had the ball then carry on
The opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not necessarily represent Reading Wildcats Lacrosse Club, SEMLA or, indeed, anybody else......but that doesn't mean that it's not what they're all thinking!
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jameskellam
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby jameskellam Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:08 pm

Mr Git is in the right of it. I for one have better things to do than sort out the minutiae of 50-50 off the ball jiggery pokery.
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davidmcculloch81
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby davidmcculloch81 Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:54 pm

Next time I'm whacking f*ck out of someone off-ball I will claim I thought he had it
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Moaning Git
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Moaning Git Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:17 pm

And you will be sent off for 1 to 3 minutes, whacking the f*ck out of any player is a personal foul!
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Mr.Stanford
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Mr.Stanford Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:24 pm

surely if he's waking the f**k out of a player while being controlled and making contact with stick/glove then it's fine?
Hitchin

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young_trig
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby young_trig Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:56 pm

Mr.Stanford wrote:surely if he's waking the f**k out of a player while being controlled and making contact with stick/glove then it's fine?


Providing he thought the player had the ball!
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MAD
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby MAD Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:19 pm

Sorry, as a ref i wont be deciding if he new he had the ball. I will automatically assume that he didn't.

Only exception is if i was to restart play and indicate the wrong player with the ball.
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Moaning Git
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby Moaning Git Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:19 pm

It does not matter if the contact is on stick or glove, if whacking the f*ck means what I assume it does then the play is either uncontrolled or unnecessary roughness, or maybe the Stockport version of whacking the f*ck out of someone or something is rather different from that experienced elsewhere!
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Re: Hidden Ball trick

Postby young_trig Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:24 pm

Moaning Git wrote:It does not matter if the contact is on stick or glove, if whacking the f*ck means what I assume it does then the play is either uncontrolled or unnecessary roughness, or maybe the Stockport version of whacking the f*ck out of someone or something is rather different from that experienced elsewhere!


You seem a bit too flag-happy if you ask me.

And can I just point out what a dangerous move it is to invite the forum to comment about Stockport and whacking the f*ck out of people :wink:
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