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Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

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Phil
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:47 pm

dblacklock wrote:I thought that in all leagues now, both teams had to supply a referee and therefore was surprised that there was only one referee on the game that you were speaking of. To reiterate, in my opinnion (for what it's worth), a game should never go forward with less than two qualified referees. The game cannot be effectively officated with only one referee. My second question was, had anybody considered using two referees rather than one referee and one CBO?


It was a BUCS game. BUCS hasn't quite caught up with NEMLA on minimum referees, in practise, and I include our university club in that too. Looking back I should have offered to help referee, before the game started, but didn't. Everyday is a school day. With regards to the CBO/referee I'm not sure that the CBO was a qualified referee. I think, as is often the case, he was just somebody given a stopwatch, paper and pen on the day.

Moaning Git wrote:However I thing that the next priority should be for panel refs to be onfield mentoring club refs, building their skills and confidence, not with formal assessments, but by passing on their practical experience.


Couldn't agree more. Has worked well, as shown below:

whopead wrote:
Adam Sherlock did a good job with 2 inexperienced Nottingham Home refs. He coached and mentored the 2 refs whilst being Head referee.

.... Paul Chatterton was from the panel. Bob Mc Ewen a level 2 and Nottingham home ref and also again another inexperienced student ref from Nottingham. Again coaching and support was available for the inexperienced ref.


Having been said student ref in both of the above cases I completely agree. The past two Saturdays have been the first two games I have ever reffed (hence all the questions) and the panel refs in both cases have been fantastic. I was kind of hoping I would get to do a few BUCS games before NEMLA but I think 'in at the deep end' has certainly worked out for the best, mainly due to the fact there has been a panel ref present to firstly call the things I've missed/got wrong and secondly to answer any questions I have had.

Phil
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Phil D
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Where does play begin?

Postby Phil D Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:33 pm

Ok so I have another question (and new forum account...):

Am I right in thinking that when I flag is thrown/whistle blown and the referee comes back to the incident, the play should take place from where the foul took place?

I understand it can't be taken within a certain distance of the goal (20 yards, I think) and I believe there may also be a ruling around the gate (5 yards?!) and should it be within those distances the restart is to be move laterally until it is far enough away.

But in games I have played in (and I am probably more picky than most, as I am a keeper) possession is being given, and play started, nowhere near where the foul took place and very rarely is it picked up on. On which really frustrates me is when a foul occurs behind the goal, flag/whistle/whatever and restart then begins in front of the goal (far enough away) but dead centre. Surely the restart should be behind the GLE where the foul took place?

People can't, surely, just choose where they would like to start play from or they would always take the option of a better attacking position?

Phil
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rpowell
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Re: Where does play begin?

Postby rpowell Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:41 pm

Phil D wrote:Ok so I have another question (and new forum account...):

Am I right in thinking that when I flag is thrown/whistle blown and the referee comes back to the incident, the play should take place from where the foul took place?
Phil


Think it will generally be from where the ball was when the whistle was blown...

(subject to 20yards from goal, 5 yards from box)
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Moaning Git
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Moaning Git Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:49 pm

The question covers two different situations, if the foul draws a flag then the match will restart where the play breaks down and whistle is blown to stop play, subject to the distance from goal.

If the foul is an immediate whistle the ball will start from where it was when the whistle goes to stop play subject to the distance from goal or gate
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Phil D
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil D Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:58 pm

Moaning Git wrote:The question covers two different situations, if the foul draws a flag then the match will restart where the play breaks down and whistle is blown to stop play, subject to the distance from goal.


So let's say a slash in drawn behind the goal. Attacker makes his way up above the GLE, the defender goes with him, keeps hassling him, dislodges and grounds the ball. Whistle is blown. Defender takes a minute for a slash. Play starts from where ball is grounded (taking into account 20/5 yards yada, yada)?

Phil
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MAD
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby MAD Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:10 pm

Phil D wrote:
Moaning Git wrote:The question covers two different situations, if the foul draws a flag then the match will restart where the play breaks down and whistle is blown to stop play, subject to the distance from goal.


So let's say a slash in drawn behind the goal. Attacker makes his way up above the GLE, the defender goes with him, keeps hassling him, dislodges and grounds the ball. Whistle is blown. Defender takes a minute for a slash. Play starts from where ball is grounded (taking into account 20/5 yards yada, yada)?

Phil


Correct
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whopead
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby whopead Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:00 pm

Phil.


Pretty sure i know the incident you are refering to!

I probably got the call wrong in the heat of the moment!
Nottingham LC
www.nottslax.co.uk
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Phil D
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil D Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:41 pm

whopead wrote:Phil.

Pretty sure i know the incident you are refering to!

I probably got the call wrong in the heat of the moment!


I can recall 5 or 6 games in which this type of situation has happened, which is why I was asking. Just like to know these kind of things for when I'm making the call and the goalies are getting emotional at me(!)

Phil
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Phil D
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil D Wed May 01, 2013 6:00 pm

So I came here with 2 questions, but upon a quick reading of the rules, think I now only have one. If someone could approve my interpretation of the rule, that would be handy though. What I was going to ask (and guess I still am) was to do with the distance between a defenders (i.e. player on the opposing team than that in possession) hands when he is body checking a player, and when that becomes a cross check.

I had originally thought there was a '6 inch rule' and was going to ask how this worked when many defenders (i.e. long poles) opt to push with the bottom hand/glove and then stick check - meaning their hands are a good distance apart. However, having looked through the rules I can't seem to find a given distance and so assume the above is completely legal, so long as the defender uses his hand/glove and not the shaft?

Rule 72
A player may not check an opponent with that part of the handle of his crosse which is between his
hands, either by thrusting his crosse away from him or by holding it extended from his body.


The next question I thought of whilst at the first day of the flags weekend:

Rightly or wrongly (which is why I am asking) when a player from team A is attempting to pick up ground ball a player from team B lifts the elbow of the player from team A making it harder for him to pick it up or causing the ball to roll out of the stick back on to the floor floor. Similarly when I am playing in goal I often shout at defenders to 'lift', which causes the same thing or forces the attacker to remove one hand from the stick.

Are either of those actually legal?

I guess if the lift was on the glove or stick it would be(?) but in both cases, I have seen quite often, that the elbow or arm itself is lifted. I guess it's not a slash... I have seen some become, and be called for, a hold - but what should happen?

Is it fine to do it? Or as it's contact with the stick which isn't on an opponents stick or glove should something be getting called?

Thanks again,

Phil
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jameskellam
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby jameskellam Fri May 03, 2013 6:56 pm

Lifting another players stick or gloved hand holding the stick with your own stick is legal. Lifting the elbow is a hold or interference (but very hard to spot).
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Phil D
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil D Thu May 09, 2013 9:31 pm

Thanks for that. Does it matter which is called, or is either acceptable?

Also any insight on the 6 inch vs gloved hand situation?

Phil
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jameskellam
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby jameskellam Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm

Strictly speaking, hold when the player has the ball and interference when he's trying to get it. But no, it doesn't matter. A cross check is committed when a player uses the stick between his gloved hands to make a check. So if the initial contact is with hands and they aren't far apart then the fact that some stick makes contact may not be enough for you to call a foul.
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Phil D
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil D Tue May 14, 2013 3:03 pm

jameskellam wrote:So if the initial contact is with hands and they aren't far apart then the fact that some stick makes contact may not be enough for you to call a foul.


Sorry, I meant what if the initial, and only, contact is with one had (bottom) which is far apart from the top hand? So you are literally just pushing away, on the hip for example, with the bottom hand - top hand is a good 1-2 feet higher up the shaft..

Phil
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jameskellam
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby jameskellam Tue May 14, 2013 7:26 pm

That would be a legal push. A cross check is delivered with the part of the stick between the hands. The rules do not stipulate that a push must be two handed, just that it not be in the back, above the shoulder or below the hip.
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Phil D
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Re: Crease Violation & Goalie Interference

Postby Phil D Wed May 15, 2013 10:37 am

Brilliant, thank you.

Phil

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