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Push/hold by ball carrier

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DanSawyer
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Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby DanSawyer Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:44 pm

Red has the ball and swim dodges past his defender. As he passes, his loose hand (the one not holding the stick) comes up and across and is placed on the back of the man he's dodging.

What's the call if:
A) there is pressure, effectively pushing the defender in the back, whether he moves him or not;

B) there is no real pressure. Definite contact but no force.
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webby
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby webby Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:12 pm

Warding/arming off. Technical. Change of possession.
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dblacklock
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby dblacklock Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:05 pm

webby wrote:Warding/arming off. Technical. Change of possession.


Agreed and more often than not they will whine about the call
DanSawyer
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby DanSawyer Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:21 pm

Is it a ward if the defender's stick is nowhere near?

You're right about the whinging though!
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webby
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby webby Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:45 am

DanSawyer wrote:Is it a ward if the defender's stick is nowhere near?

You're right about the whinging though!


As far as I know, warding has nothing to do with the defender's stick. It is effectively the use of the free hand by a player in possession to push against an opposing player, whether this is to block a stick check, body check or general "pressure".

By using the free hand to push against the defender during a swim dodge, the attacking player is committing a ward. If it simply brushes past I would not call anything.

And this is coming from a defender!
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jameskellam
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby jameskellam Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:06 am

"A player in possession of the ball may protect his crosse with his hand, arm, or other part of his body when an opponent makes a play to check his crosse.
The hand, arm, or other part of his body may only be used to stop the stick check, and it must not be used to hold, push, or control the direction of the movement of the checker’s crosse or body"

To make any sense of it, you need to realise that the second sentence is more important than the first . And that the rule prohibits any use of the free arm against an opponent who is not making a stick check.

I think this wording says the same thing better.

A player in possession of the ball may not use his hand, arm or any other part of his body to hold, push or control the movement of an opponent's crosse or body except that he may use his hand, arm or body to stop or block an opponent's stick check.
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UKLaxfan
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby UKLaxfan Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:42 pm

With a one handed cradle the free arm must be SET and stationary

any movement in and out towards opponent will more often than not be called a Ward.

The Swim Dodges is a new Dodge made popular by Paul Rabil but even he used it illegally often during NCAA games but there was No Call

In the 2010 World Games he got away with most of them but was called once and lost possession when he used three Swim Dodges on the trot running through the opposition midfIeld & defence.

The free hand can not contact the opponent whether attacking or defending.

The other major time it occurs is when a one handed wrap check is performed, and the free hand is used to control the attacker while you wrap your stick around the body to check their stick.

Keep two hands on the stick and most of the time you will be OK on offense & defence.

10p
DanSawyer
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby DanSawyer Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:11 pm

UKLaxfan wrote:With a one handed cradle the free arm must be SET and stationary


This is one of those things that everybody knows but I've not been able to find in the rules. The rules just say you can protect your stick but mustn't "hold, push or control the direction of the movement of the checker's crosse or body".

Nothing there to say that my arm has to be still. By that rule I can freely wave it around, parrying like D'Artagnan on speed...
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Mort rotu
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby Mort rotu Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:48 pm

DanSawyer wrote:Nothing there to say that my arm has to be still. By that rule I can freely wave it around, parrying like D'Artagnan on speed...


I would not want to be in possession of your forearm on sunday morning should you attempt that.
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DanSawyer
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Re: Push/hold by ball carrier

Postby DanSawyer Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:56 pm

After Saturday's game, my forearm was one of the relatively few parts of the body not hit by a dpole. Or helmet, boot etc...

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