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Between The Ears.

Advice for all the Midfield? Tips from the coaches. Advice from players.

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De fen door
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Between The Ears.

Postby De fen door Tue May 12, 2009 11:09 pm

Hey, i'v been playing for Reading now since Christmas. I kind of jumped in playing long stick defence and really enjoy it, However stick skills arn't very good and deffinatly need improving. So a couple of the team have suggested me playing midfield for a little while which i have started, to gain more of an understanding of the game as a whole i guess.

The main thing thats holding me back at the moment though is whats going on in between my ears.. :x I am usually about 10 seconds behind the rest of the game and very often havn't a clue what the hell is going on. I can play wall ball all day long but that isn't going to help my unstanding of game situations, does anybody know of anything that can help with this? like lacrosse videos, anything really.

Cheers.
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Postby davewilliams Wed May 13, 2009 12:26 pm

De fen door wrote:whats going on in between my ears


It's still early doors, de. You were not born with a wooden stick in your cradle.

There are plenty at the top of the game who started with the same problem, especially if they started late, ie, after the age of 16. Stick handling and ball retention tend to slide badly with fatigue, so you could look at building up your fitness alone, join the club training regime, hone stick skills in the team environment, contribute to set piece practise sessions, scrimmage games, and warm-up games before the league season starts. With all that comes easy banter and natural teamwork, when you can trust your captain, coach, & mates to keep you up to speed with game situations as they arrive. After a while, "click" and you can start to lead by example.

In some teams a clique tends to dominate, but if you have shown your talent, they will accept you when it matters. Also, most clubs need to have a succession strategy rather than just rely on recruitment, so your retention and development should be a source of pride.

Most videos focus on results rather than how it all developed, but the Bryant clips on this forum are inspiring, even if there are gaps in the process.

Next step is to take advice and find your best position, rather than what suits your club. One of the great features of lacrosse is that a team is a blend of different skills and shapes, so there is a job for everyone.
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Postby Mr.Stanford Wed May 13, 2009 1:01 pm

Watch game tapes - Follow a guy in your position, when they do something try to think about why they did that and picture what would happen if you did that in a game.

Watch coaching tapes - Learn the game, there are loads of resources out there for learning different offensive formations, defensive systems etc. Once you understand these you will get a better head for the game.

Read articles, forums and watch highlights.

It will come in time. Once you can throw and catch the hardest part is understanding the game. If you know what system the D is playing you know where the free man is/will be. If you know what formations/systems the attack are trying to run you will have a pretty good idea about where they're looking to put the ball.

Try these resources as a starter:

http://www.e-lacrosse.com
http://www.lax.com
http://www.insidelacrosse.com

http://video.kudda.com/sports/boys+lacrosse

Those plus some google searching and you'll have more than enough stuff to watch.
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Mort rotu
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Re:

Postby Mort rotu Wed May 13, 2009 3:09 pm

Mr.Stanford wrote:Watch game tapes - Follow a guy in your position, when they do something try to think about why they did that and picture what would happen if you did that in a game.


also watch what Jon/Dave/Pete and Nick do at training in drills and games, and do the same as above. If you don't understand why they did what they did ask them when you get the chance, jon and pete especially, are very good at explaining and so long as you've got a reading jersey on they dont bite.

even if you do understand, ask them anyway, you might have got the right idea but for the wrong reason.
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Postby kjk20 Thu May 14, 2009 12:57 pm

Play as much as possible and don't get discouraged no matter what insults are thrown at you (insults make it harder to stay determined, but Reading seems to have a constructive culture). The more you play, the better you will understand game situations. Watching other similar sports helps too, look at basketball to see the value of movement and ice hockey for a bit of physical inspiration, as well as the importance of good positioning on plays - both sports are analogous to lacrosse.
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Postby kiddo Thu May 14, 2009 8:00 pm

just play as much as you can as well as watching highlight videos. youll get a better understanding the more you train in game like situations, and in games. simple ! :)
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Postby jivingjohn Fri May 15, 2009 9:14 am

Some wise words from Ken,

Bit surprised by analagous though, didn't think you'd get past the fourth letter.

Definitely agree about not getting discouraged by negativity. Work out something new you want to do and give it a go. People will give you $h1t if it goes wrong, but once you master it, you'll be the one giving all the chat!
De fen door
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Thanks everyone :D

Postby De fen door Fri May 22, 2009 3:48 pm

Thanks everybody, The advice has been very good here and everybody seems to know there stuff :) I'v been watching lots of game footage and studying a lot of games. One problem i am seeing is there is a difference in the way that an american college team (most of the game tapes i have found) and the games of Reading defence playing. I'v noticed in College lacrosse there defence is very spread out and everybody is doing there own thing with there own man, but there always there to give backup still, they run behind the crease (something i'v been taught is a huge NoNo) and our defence is usually very tight and in a formation. Also thanks to John Thurlbourne as i did ask him at practise tuesday and he said he has a tutorial tape that he is going to copy and give to me :) so that will probably help.
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Re: Thanks everyone :D

Postby Mr.Stanford Fri May 22, 2009 4:28 pm

De fen door wrote: I'v noticed in College lacrosse there defence is very spread out and everybody is doing there own thing with there own man, but there always there to give backup still,


You just answered your own statement there...

They play a team orientated defence with a number of different slide packages (over and above our 1 slide from the crease, with a 2nd if we're lucky) often designed around the team (and threats) they are playing against.

They are more spread out than us for 2 reasons
1. They are faster and more athletic which means they can cover more ground and work for longer.
2. The offence they are playing against is much better and can pick corners on the goal from much further out.
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Postby Doink Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:35 pm

When it comes to "thinking the game" you can't get better information than from the people who have been doing it for a long time....

Spend time speaking to the older guys at your club both on and off the field, ask them to explain why they think that is the best option for the situation your discussing. Try and get as much information as possible form people who have actually done it. Watching videos is a help but you can't always absorb why things are happening.

Say you really want to understand the defensive side of the game then you also have to understand what the attack are trying to do, This way you can anticipate better and even get ahead of the game on some occasions.

Read, Watch, Talk but most importantly LISTEN to other players and take the advise that you think is of help. Become a student of the entire game.
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Postby Dining Room Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:46 pm

Hi De, as long as you understand the different types of defences then it doesn't matter which style you actually play. You need to know WHY! Rather than how and the rest will come. here are a few variations to mull over.

it sounds like your team plays in tight, this is common in the English game WHY....

In the main you will have a keeper who is strong from the outside and the opposition will want to dodge to goal, so you get in tight, let them take the odd big-shot and have a slide package ready to go. If they cut inside they end up with 3 of you teaching him not to come inside again!

This can get more aggressive depending on yours (and the opposition's) personnel.
You can play out on the ball carrier and the players immediate to his left and right. WHY....?
If your other 3 sit tight on the crease this leaves only difficult, long passes; a slide comes from the crease should a dodge be successful.
If you work hard you'll be on and off the crease quickly as the ball moves around, keep your stick up and you'll block any daft feeds that your pressure causes.

You can stick all 4-poles on the outside in a zonal defence and have the middies inside covering any feeds and the crease WHY......most UK opposition will not have a clue how to break this down. If your big sticks are covering the dodge all over the field in general this disrupts the midfield game.


You can put your best defender on their worst attacker.............why.....
Because the amount of pressure you apply can influence where the ball goes, SO, you can make it very easy for the gammer to get the ball by stepping off him, as soon as he has go and get him and shut off his help.

All sorts of things can be done, but make sure you extract the information from the people in charge so you have your 'why'.

Hope this helps,

Rob
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Postby the pom Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

bloody hell rob and i thought you knew nothing about lacrosse
League restructure I told you so 10/3/2011(looking good on this one)
Prem division to two leagues will result in the prem division failing and being combined with Nemla 22/3/2012
the proposed restructure to 8 teams in each prem league will only last a couple of years until it has to be restructured again due to teams dropping out. 13/12/2012
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Re: Between The Ears.

Postby UKLaxfan Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:20 pm

Ben

Google & YouTube cover a multiple of sins

Some solid advice from posters above

The one thing I'd add is keep it simple
- know what your role is in defense and do it as well as you can

Some defenders get carried away trying to do too much, either covering everyone elses man or trying to strip the ball away and over committing.

Rule #1 - stop your man from scoring

Guidlines for 1v1 defense = ABCD
A = Approach
B = Breakdown
C = Contact
D = Drive

there are 2 general rules for defense
1) the closer the ball is to your man the closer you must be to him
2) the closer your man is to goal the closer you must be to him

Approach
this covers the most common situation when your man is on the perimeter not close to goal
when the ball is 2 passes away you can step in toward the goal/crease area to help your team mates
when the ball is one pass away from your man you should be halfway between crease & your man
when the ball is in the air being passed to your man - you must step out to him quickly but under control

Breakdown
this is a defensive stance or posture where you are stationary but on alert ready to move left, right or backwards defending your man wherever he goes.
- you should be on the balls of your feet
- knees bent and your head lower than opponents so you are in an athletic stance (similar to basketball)
- your stick should be in front of your creating a cushion area between you & opponent
- you should be positioned a little bit more than a sticks length away from your man
The location is very important and depends on your relative athletic ability, if you are quicker than your man you can be closer if he is quicker than you you need to be closer to goal with a bigger space between you and him.

Contact
remember rule #1, if your man is going to dodge he will initiate the movement (left, right or to goal)
when he has done this you must react
1) Left or Right, you move with him staying between him and the goal
he speeds up you speed up
he changes direction you change direction (never get ahead of him just match him)
2) if he runs toward you (aka dodging North-South or to goal)
you must initiate Contact with you glove either top or bottom hand depending which direction he is running.
if you are right handed
- he dodges you to your right side your Left hand should contact his right hip or just above
- he dodges you to you left side your Right hand should contact him just underneath armpit on side (Not on Back)
The purpose of this contact is NOT to stop them in their tracks or knock them backwards, it is to provide you with an ability to influence the direction they run in.
As part of the Contact phase, you should "Drop Step" and be ready to run with your man Hip-to-Hip

Drive
This is Final and key stage to determine who wins the 1v1 battle between you and your man.
Having established Contact you maintain pressure on your opponent and steer them (Drive them) away from goal.
- you look to keep them moving away from goal reducing their angle for a shot on goal
- You Do NOT Cross Check them
- You Do NOT Push them backwards or try to knock them over
if you attempt above your momentum will be going in opposite direction to them which if you are not successful will lead to them getting by you for an open shot or to draw another Defender as you have been beaten

This is important to recognise that your Role is to not get beat
If your opponent gets a step ahead of you and is preparing to shoot/feed you still have ability to impact his shot pass by either One final extra pressure Drive on hip or under armpit, or if not in reach to use your stick to Lift the bottom elbow or hand as your man is in the process of shooting. This is the Lift Check

If you have been cleanly beaten in the dodge and can not reach your opponent - DO NOT GIVE UP!
Keep chasing him as fast as you can, as he may slow down to wind up for a Power shot or to change hands so he can shoot with his stronger hand. In this situation you can stretch out and over commit to make a desperation check again to interfere with the shot. This is called a Trail Check

I attended a Coaching Camp once at Syracuse University and watched Pat McCabe (Hall of Fame Defender) speak to about 200+ kids.
His one Key message for the group was... Never, Never, Never Give Up!

He explained that you never know what will happen, attacker could slip, fall, he could decide to fake the goalie, anything but if you give up before a goal you can no longer impact the play. Whereas if you never give up, sometimes you will be able to get back and make the check or the play to stop a goal.

Pat McCabe got beat lots of times as he was a very aggressive defender, throwing checks but he also recovered lots of times making amazing trail checks and stops which he had no right to. So I guess he did what he said.

Approach
Breakdown
Contact
Drive
Never Give Up

Hope this helps
if you have time check out 1989 Final Syracuse #29 Pat McCabe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgPYLMN92pI
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Re: Between The Ears.

Postby UKLaxfan Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:30 pm

High School Games
http://www.msgvarsity.com/optimum/Retri ... 6BiuTNg%3D

There are a number of US High School games available free on-demand on above link

The games are slower and a lower standard than college games but they also tend to be more basic and fundamentally sound so they are easier to watch and learn from.

Pause & Play the action and actually look at the position of each defender in relation to their man, the ball and the goal.

watch the individual 1v1s on defense & see what works and what doesn't
- their stance
- their footwork
- do they check or not

watch how players move and get open off ball

being able to watch games in full screen and to stop/start/replay the action is only a great tool to learn with if you use it. You will eventually be able to see slides and spot breakdowns on D or when an attacker should have made the "One more" extra pass to the open man.
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Re: Between The Ears.

Postby Jim13 Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:17 am

UKLaxfan wrote:Ben

Google & YouTube cover a multiple of sins

Some solid advice from posters above

The one thing I'd add is keep it simple
- know what your role is in defense and do it as well as you can

Some defenders get carried away trying to do too much, either covering everyone elses man or trying to strip the ball away and over committing.

Rule #1 - stop your man from scoring

Guidlines for 1v1 defense = ABCD
A = Approach
B = Breakdown
C = Contact
D = Drive

there are 2 general rules for defense
1) the closer the ball is to your man the closer you must be to him
2) the closer your man is to goal the closer you must be to him

Approach
this covers the most common situation when your man is on the perimeter not close to goal
when the ball is 2 passes away you can step in toward the goal/crease area to help your team mates
when the ball is one pass away from your man you should be halfway between crease & your man
when the ball is in the air being passed to your man - you must step out to him quickly but under control

Breakdown
this is a defensive stance or posture where you are stationary but on alert ready to move left, right or backwards defending your man wherever he goes.
- you should be on the balls of your feet
- knees bent and your head lower than opponents so you are in an athletic stance (similar to basketball)
- your stick should be in front of your creating a cushion area between you & opponent
- you should be positioned a little bit more than a sticks length away from your man
The location is very important and depends on your relative athletic ability, if you are quicker than your man you can be closer if he is quicker than you you need to be closer to goal with a bigger space between you and him.

Contact
remember rule #1, if your man is going to dodge he will initiate the movement (left, right or to goal)
when he has done this you must react
1) Left or Right, you move with him staying between him and the goal
he speeds up you speed up
he changes direction you change direction (never get ahead of him just match him)
2) if he runs toward you (aka dodging North-South or to goal)
you must initiate Contact with you glove either top or bottom hand depending which direction he is running.
if you are right handed
- he dodges you to your right side your Left hand should contact his right hip or just above
- he dodges you to you left side your Right hand should contact him just underneath armpit on side (Not on Back)
The purpose of this contact is NOT to stop them in their tracks or knock them backwards, it is to provide you with an ability to influence the direction they run in.
As part of the Contact phase, you should "Drop Step" and be ready to run with your man Hip-to-Hip

Drive
This is Final and key stage to determine who wins the 1v1 battle between you and your man.
Having established Contact you maintain pressure on your opponent and steer them (Drive them) away from goal.
- you look to keep them moving away from goal reducing their angle for a shot on goal
- You Do NOT Cross Check them
- You Do NOT Push them backwards or try to knock them over
if you attempt above your momentum will be going in opposite direction to them which if you are not successful will lead to them getting by you for an open shot or to draw another Defender as you have been beaten

This is important to recognise that your Role is to not get beat
If your opponent gets a step ahead of you and is preparing to shoot/feed you still have ability to impact his shot pass by either One final extra pressure Drive on hip or under armpit, or if not in reach to use your stick to Lift the bottom elbow or hand as your man is in the process of shooting. This is the Lift Check

If you have been cleanly beaten in the dodge and can not reach your opponent - DO NOT GIVE UP!
Keep chasing him as fast as you can, as he may slow down to wind up for a Power shot or to change hands so he can shoot with his stronger hand. In this situation you can stretch out and over commit to make a desperation check again to interfere with the shot. This is called a Trail Check

I attended a Coaching Camp once at Syracuse University and watched Pat McCabe (Hall of Fame Defender) speak to about 200+ kids.
His one Key message for the group was... Never, Never, Never Give Up!

He explained that you never know what will happen, attacker could slip, fall, he could decide to fake the goalie, anything but if you give up before a goal you can no longer impact the play. Whereas if you never give up, sometimes you will be able to get back and make the check or the play to stop a goal.

Pat McCabe got beat lots of times as he was a very aggressive defender, throwing checks but he also recovered lots of times making amazing trail checks and stops which he had no right to. So I guess he did what he said.

Approach
Breakdown
Contact
Drive
Never Give Up

Hope this helps
if you have time check out 1989 Final Syracuse #29 Pat McCabe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgPYLMN92pI


Best post I've ever seen.
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Re: Between The Ears.

Postby UKLaxfan Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:37 pm

jim13 - thanks

1v1 play bugs me especially for SSDMs where they get beat far too easily a long way from goal.

if you are going to play out on the perimeter at least use that space and give ground and maintain position
there is nothing wrong with stepping back, then running backwards before establishing contact rather than looking for impact 15-20yds from goal

American Football Cornerback Drills cover how to back pedal, yet it is a skill we under utilize in lacrosse

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